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66 bronco - fusible link?

McLeod

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Jun 29, 2008
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My 66 is a heavy mixture between 66 and 67 parts with just about every other year mixed in too, so it is anyone's guess what I am looking at.

The wiring is in pretty good shape so I decided to clean it up a bit under the hood and add an 80 amp mega fuse into the alternator charge wire.

But before doing this, I noticed that where the black wire (other end of charge wire)connects to the battery side of the starter relay that it has no fusible link.
It is the factory connector that incorporates the 10 ga black wire and the yellow wire (VR wire?) right at the terminal.

I have removed all of the tape on the wires and it looks to be all original with zero splicing.

I did see Seabiscuit schematic for 67 with no fusible link shown.

Did 66 and 67 have no fusible links or is it located in an unusual place?
 

DirtDonk

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In theory they did have the fusible links. Viper and someone were working on breaking down the little idiosyncrasies of the '66 harnesses, so maybe he's seen them at that end and can shed some light.

For the most part though, I don't think they look any different from the rest of the wire. My '71 does not have the Yellow wire right at the starter relay, but does have the molded plastic covered ring terminal connector that IS the fusible link as far as I know.
It's either right at the end, or that section of wire between the starter relay and the first connector is fusible link wire with no special markings.
I always "assumed" that it was just the little knob at the end.

Interested to hear what others say.
But are you upgrading the alternator and using a heavy fuse in that charge wire? Or just using stock and want to replace with a fuse anyway?
If just replacing, then either leave the wire as is, or cut the business end off and replace that run.
But the factory does such a nice clean job I'd leave it. Run the fuse in addition to the possible link, unless someone says that's not a good idea.

Just so we're clear though, are you planning a Mega-Fuse, or a Maxi-Fuse? And is it going to go on the starter relay end of the wire, or on the alternator side?
Guessing starter relay side because that's the most convenient, but still figured I'd ask.

Paul
 
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McLeod

McLeod

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No alternator upgrade. Just a reman. that I think is a 65A version.

I was planning on using a 80A Mega-fuse in a Mega fuse holder in the charge wire just 12 inches off of the alternator in the black w/ yellow #10 wire.

This is what I have in place right now. I'm not entirely sure of what year it came out of, but it is indeed the factory wiring and there are no splices within 2 feet of the start relay terminal.

100_1348.JPG


100_1347.JPG
 

DirtDonk

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Yeah, looks like things have been moved around some. Unless some '66's were different than others, all the ones I've seen had the starter relay mounted on the inner panel of the wheel house/well facing the exhaust manifold. Pretty sure I see the two holes where it used to mount on yours too.

But your current location is better in my opinion. More away from the heat of the engine and general nasty weather patterns.;)
The relocation is probably why your wires look like they've been relocated too. Unless you did that? I think you said at least you did the unwrapping, if nothing else.

I see the one end of the Black w/yellow wire near the alternator is cut. Are you going to be extending that, or is one of those Red wires already taking it's place?
Since you're doing the alternator wiring, are you aware of the two different ways Ford wires alternators? For ours it's always been just one way (except for some '66's from what I remember) but for other cars they had two methods.
Generally speaking, Ford vehicles with ammeters like our Broncos have only three wires at the regulator. Looks like yours is that way too.
They also only use three wires at the alternator. Just the FLD, BAT and GRD are utilized.

Back to the fusible link. It may actually be just that small section at the very end of the wire, holding the ring. I guess it's officially a "wire strain relief" piece, but I always though they were part of the fusible link.
Obviously I just don't know though. Wait for others to confirm or deny.

In the meantime, got any more pics from under the hood? Especially involving wiring?

Thanks

Paul
 
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McLeod

McLeod

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I cut the blk/yellow charge wire and extended it w/ a red one to the alt. It is just taped back into the bundle specifically to tidy up for the picture.
My current alt has the three wires and I added a 4th wire from the stator directly to the electric choke on the edelbrock.

In a box, I do have an alternator harness from a later model that has all four wires in a factory harness.

Like I mentioned, this thing is a Frankenstein when it comes down to originality.

I too was wondering if that molded "strain relief" was something to do with a fuse...
 

Steve83

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...add an 80 amp mega fuse into the alternator charge wire.
No alternator upgrade. Just a reman. that I think is a 65A version.
This is wasted effort - it won't accomplish anything.

If the original wire is sized for ~65A, then you can't use it (alone) for an 80A alternator (which you're not planning on anyway). If it has no fusible link, then the entire wire probably has fusible link insulation (only the insulation is different - not the wire inside). If it has a fusible link somewhere, that's sized for the rest of the wire, which is only designed to carry ~65A. So putting an 80A fuse on it would have the same effect as putting a 350A fuse in - it'll never blow. The wire will always fail first.

A 70A fuse would make a little more sense, but again: the original wire is almost certainly already designed with some protection. So the fuse would either blow unnecessarily when the alt. goes to max output, or the original protection would work before the fuse does. So still no reason for the fuse.

If you find the original fusible link (which is much larger than simply a molded rubber block at one end), DON'T REMOVE IT unless you remove the entire alternator charging circuit, and re-engineer it for some other protection. But there's no reason with a direct-replacement alternator.

This caption explains fusible links & electrical modifications:


(phone app link)
 

DirtDonk

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Steve's got your best advice for the stock alternator probably. Just leave it (with the new sections of course) and go from there.
You often see 60, 70 and even 80 amp Maxi-Fuses (physically smaller than a Mega-Fuse) used in the aftermarket harnesses instead of fusible links, but it's typically with a different setup for the charge circuit as well.
It's just protecting the power circuit on a much shorter length (about half the normal length) that feeds the fuse panel. This shorter section of 10ga wire can handle a lot more amperage than the stock one of the same gauge can. Partly for being new, but mostly for just being shorter.
So in Steve's scenario, they can handle the 80a where the stock one might not.
In those harnesses the charging duties are handled directly over an even shorter wire from the alternator directly to the starter relay/battery connection.

But to add to the discussion, both Painless and Centech offer their harnesses with "stock-ish" layouts where the alternator's charge wire runs the full length with the same 10ga size.
Where Painless uses a 60a Maxi-Fuse (I believe they've recently up-sized that to at least 70 now though?) in lieu of a fusible link, but Centech keeps the fusible link in their design.

Not sure about the routing of the Painless charge wire, but the Centech charge wire may actually be effectively shorter than stock because it goes to a junction on the back of the fuse panel, and from there goes on it's rounds.
I'm not sure if that makes any difference in load handling ability, so maybe Steve can say if that changes things at all?
Where instead of one long 10ga wire from alternator, through the cab and back to the battery, there is a shorter section terminated at a terminal stud.
In other words my question being, in theory are three separate 4' sections of 10ga wire run in series any more or less susceptible to overloading than one long 12' wire is?

I cut the blk/yellow charge wire and extended it w/ a red one to the alt. It is just taped back into the bundle specifically to tidy up for the picture.

What are you going to be doing with that section of Black w/yellow wire that's exposed right now? Need to cap it off safely somehow.

My current alt has the three wires and I added a 4th wire from the stator directly to the electric choke on the edelbrock.

Stator output is not 12v as far as I know, so your aftermarket 12v choke coil may not work properly. Either not opening as quickly as it should, or perhaps not opening all the way at all?
I would guess it would eventually open, just at a slower rate.

I too was wondering if that molded "strain relief" was something to do with a fuse...

I guess Steve has set me straight. The reason I thought it might be the actual fusible link section was due in part at least to that piece getting "puffy and soft" when the fusible link has blown.
Over the years many have reported blown factory fusible links that did not melt the wire or leave any visible burn marks other than the half-melted strain relief at the very end.

It does make sense though, that the first whole section of that wire would be the link wire. Most EB's had a 3-wire connector several inches up the harness. So if you had a melt-down it was not the entire wire that needed to be replaced.
If your '66 does not have that plug/connector, not sure how they did it. In that case we're back to wondering how the '66's were wired.
I think Steve was checking out Viper's data and had plans to eventually create a '66 specific diagram to go along with all of his others.
Hope that comes to fruition someday.

Paul
 

Steve83

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...they can handle the 80a where the stock one might not.
But in the OP's situation, there aren't 80 Amps anywhere. It's a direct-replacement 65A alternator.
...are three separate 4' sections of 10ga wire run in series any more or less susceptible to overloading than one long 12' wire is?
Maybe slightly moreso since there are exposed studs where the sections bolt together. But that really has no impact on the circuit protection's rating.
Stator output is not 12v as far as I know...
It's always slightly above 1/2 the alternator's output voltage.
Over the years many have reported blown factory fusible links that did not melt the wire or leave any visible burn marks...
That's the purpose of the special insulation that turns normal wire into fusible link wire - the insulation doesn't melt, so it doesn't allow liquid Copper to spray around the vehicle.
...plans to eventually create a '66 specific diagram to go along with all of his others. Hope that comes to fruition someday.
There doesn't seem to be enough interest by those with the resources to collect the information needed for anyone to create those diagrams. I don't mind working on them (when I have time), but there's nothing to work on until people with those original harnesses start posting pics & descriptions of the details that need to be added to SeaBiscuit's current diagrams.
 
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McLeod

McLeod

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Thanks Paul and Steve.
I thought about this this morning, before Steve chimed in, and decided that it made little sense to add a fuse at this time so I just reinstalled it as is because it works great as is.

In fact, I had read several posts where a seemingly knowledgeable fellow that goes by the moniker "RAAAAY" suggests not using a mega-fuse even when going with drastically higher output alternators assuming everything else is in good condition and wired correctly.

I believe the difference between a Mega fuse and a Maxi Fuse is that the Mega fuse is a slow blow type fuse (more like a fusible link) where the Maxi is a quick response trip.
Maxi fuses looks like giant versions of the standard blade fuses.

And that cut black/Yellow wire that Paul had noted in my picture is now connected to the other [red] cut wire that is hidden underneath the other alternator wires in that pic.

You just gave me a project for tomorrow though. I need to investigate the electric choke operation to see if my choke is even working properly.

Thanks for the info
 

73azbronco

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pretty sure fuseable links didn't become a thing until the 70's and with the Bronco not until the fullsize variety.

Pretty sure anyway.

Just looked over my 66 harness in a box, no fuseable link.

My 73 may have had a FL, maybe, still need to look at that old harness in a box.

In any event, I use large amp 100 plus breakers on the alternator, and use some FL on grounding returns to the battery, ie, one block to body, body to battery.

A FL save my Tacoma when it fried when my hot battery terminal contact the hood bouncing up going over a bump, fried the engine to body FL, lost lots of stuff like radio dash lights etc.
 
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McLeod

McLeod

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If you really had a 66, this old thread might help.

http://classicbroncos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253190

Thanks for that. I don't have that piece and my wiring is different too. My black power wire and the yellow for the VR is connected together into one molded connector.
It is anyone's guess what year mine is though. At this point I can only assume that the factory has some kind of protection built into the harness. After all, the factory 10ga wire should have easily met the stock amperage of any original Bronco alternator and probably even the 65A replacements.

I think that binding post is nothing but an additional terminal and not likely associated with any fuse scenario.

Stator output is not 12v as far as I know, so your aftermarket 12v choke coil may not work properly. Either not opening as quickly as it should, or perhaps not opening all the way at all?
I would guess it would eventually open, just at a slower rate.

I just came in from adjusting and then testing the choke.
I will start by saying yes, my stator fluctuates between 6.25 -7 volts.
Wouldn't a thermal type coil operate on amperage regardless of the voltage? Maybe take twice as long as if it was hooked to a full 12v(?????)

Anyhow, my carb is a Carter AFB, but I searched out an Edelbrock owner's manual regarding adjustment, considering they are virtually the same.
Nowhere in the manual did it state to use 12v only, nor did it address where to source the power for the choke.

I then went and made every adjustment to the choke as suggested in manual (had a heck of a time finding a .026 dia. wire).
I turned choke adjustment cap all the way to the leanest mark on the housing. This is the adjustment that determines how long the choke stays open.

6 presses of the gas pedal sets the choke and the fast idle cam. Vroom, started and let it idle at fast idle(~1200rpm) for about 1.5 to two minutes. Blip the throttle and it drops fast idle cam down a notch to maintain about 900 rpm idle. Choke is about half open at this point.
Within two more minutes, I am nearing 180 degrees, a blip of throttle again drops the idle down to main idle screw which I have set at roughly 750 rpm.
Choke is wide open now with no interference on my behalf except blipping the throttle. Running and idling great and it took about 4 minutes to operate on an mostly automatic basis at about 40 degrees outside.
Pretty sure I could have short circuited the fast idle cam operation if I was in a big hurry to get going.

If I needed choke to operate longer (colder weather) I would turn adjustment cap more to the rich setting.

So, it seems that at least the earlier AFB's electric chokes operate just fine on the reduced voltage of the stator.:cool:
 
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okie4570

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I know the wiring, etc was removed long enough to spray the Ziebart 50 years ago but here's what I got, 9/65 build.

20190222_111915_zpschuppu7k.jpg


20190222_111924_zps9zccdvug.jpg


20190222_111944_zpsvxwacs7h.jpg
 

DirtDonk

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Cool comparison. Shows the ring terminal with both the Black and the smaller Yellow wires just like McLeod's.

I remember the discussion about that terminal block on the Black wire circuit too. Don't remember if others said they had them too, or if yours was unusual in that regard.
Don't remember talking about that other box though. The one I thought at first was some kind of fancy aftermarket regulator. Now it looks more like an old-school battery isolator.
Could it be an anti-rust device to complement the Zeibart treatment?

Paul
 

DirtDonk

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Oh, and excellent to know about the action of the choke with the different voltage. That's very good info and now we know for sure that running on the standard STA wire is fine.
Some may have known that already, but we've talked about it many times over the years and I don't remember anyone ever reporting the results.
So thanks for that.

Paul
 
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McLeod

McLeod

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Cool comparison. Shows the ring terminal with both the Black and the smaller Yellow wires just like McLeod's.

That is interesting set up okie has. Although his yellow wire and the black Battery wire are terminated individually unlike mine which are bonded together.
No difference in operation, but might not be of the same vintage.

It almost looks like maybe there is a possible fuse between the separate terminal with the Blk/Ylw charge wire and the starter relay on okies, but maybe that is just a connector of some sorts.
And that silver box behind the battery is interesting. I'd be interested in learning more about what that is...
 
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