66 moral dilemma

[towood]

No way I will change it. Was ranting about engine swaps earlier out of frustration with my own ignorance

Indeed I may look to a body off to restore it to its Yellow glory

Any recommendations for restoration shops in north or central Florida?

Thanks all. You are why these forums flourish.

 

[Lewko66u13]

Yes the H means August.

Generate as many threads as you want, but when I ask you a question...It's usually worth answering.

My real name is my username in case we meet sometime.

NOW you have a dilemma...

Isn’t that just a casting date and not an assembly date? My understanding the date stamped on the top left of the block is the date the engine was assembled unless it’s a warranty block and the date stamp isn’t there.

If 5000 170 blocks were casted in august 1965 they would all have 5H on them, no matter what the assembly stamp says on them

That casting number says 5H25 so that block was casted the 25th of august. And with Bobby saying it was a first week of august build I doubt that that’s the original motor with a late august casting number and October assembly date. Is it a period correct motor? Yes, but not original To that bronco.

 

[okie4570]

Isn’t that just a casting date and not an assembly date? My understanding the date stamped on the top left of the block is the date the engine was assembled unless it’s a warranty block and the date stamp isn’t there.

If 5000 170 blocks were casted in august 1965 they would all have 5H on them, no matter what the assembly stamp says on them

That casting number says 5H25 so that block was casted the 25th of august. And with Bobby saying it was a first week of august build I doubt that that’s the original motor with a late august casting number and October assembly date. Is it a period correct motor? Yes, but not original To that bronco.

I'm not sure if we know for sure what the first week of production was though. The bronco press release was August 11, 1965 but I'm not sure anyone has ever nailed down when production started in August. Were they rolling the broncos through at the beginning of August with the F100s or did the broncos make it onto the line after the announcement or even later? First week production might not mean the first week of August, so many unknowns lol. @toddz69 ?

 

[toddz69]

I'm not sure if we know for sure what the first week of production was though. The bronco press release was August 11, 1965 but I'm not sure anyone has ever nailed down when production started in August. Were they rolling the broncos through at the beginning of August with the F100s or did the broncos make it onto the line after the announcement or even later? First week production might not mean the first week of August, so many unknowns lol. @toddz69 ?

You're exactly right - those are all unknowns that we don't know the answers to and probably never will.

Todd Z.

 

[towood]

I am taking all the replies in and I appreciate the help. I guess the bottom line seems to be no one can prove it is original, or not, since so much is unknown all I know for sure is I believe the guy who owned it for a half century kept every document including the how to use the 4wheel drive pamphlet. Every
receipt, there are 20 from Napa for 2 dollar seals and gaskets over 4 decades- who does that! as well as handwritten notes. I don’t see him hiding a short block or head replacement because it might impact the originality for a six cylinder truck that was nothing special until maybe 10 years ago, if even that. And again what are the odds in the 80s when it would have been time to freshen up the engine he happened to find a 170 built weeks after the original 170? Heck, why would you even put a 170 back in when a 200 would have been better and easier?

So maybe this will just have to remain a mystery how a truck with an Aug vin has a block with a lower forge date in aug and an upper build stamp from Oct then it’s sold at a dealership in the same city it was made 3 days after the upper stamp was struck. What did the guy with a chisel stand next to the trucks leaving the factory?

I may just go with the story Henry pulled this one off the line in August for a special build for the queen of England, but in October she decided she wanted a mustang instead

That said. I do love a good mystery

Has anyone ever looked at the surviving Aug u15’s believed to have original motors for patterns? Vin vs block casting vs stamp on top?

How many in this forum have one and can help solve the mystery of the Loch Ness u15?

 

[Lewko66u13]

I am taking all the replies in and I appreciate the help. I guess the bottom line seems to be no one can prove it is original, or not, since so much is unknown all I know for sure is I believe the guy who owned it for a half century kept every document including the how to use the 4wheel drive pamphlet. Every
receipt, there are 20 from Napa for 2 dollar seals and gaskets over 4 decades- who does that! as well as handwritten notes. I don’t see him hiding a short block or head replacement because it might impact the originality for a six cylinder truck that was nothing special until maybe 10 years ago, if even that. And again what are the odds in the 80s when it would have been time to freshen up the engine he happened to find a 170 built weeks after the original 170? Heck, why would you even put a 170 back in when a 200 would have been better and easier?

So maybe this will just have to remain a mystery how a truck with an Aug vin has a block with a lower forge date in aug and an upper build stamp from Oct then it’s sold at a dealership in the same city it was made 3 days after the upper stamp was struck. What did the guy with a chisel stand next to the trucks leaving the factory?

I may just go with the story Henry pulled this one off the line in August for a special build for the queen of England, but in October she decided she wanted a mustang instead

That said. I do love a good mystery

Has anyone ever looked at the surviving Aug u15’s believed to have original motors for patterns? Vin vs block casting vs stamp on top?

How many in this forum have one and can help solve the mystery of the Loch Ness u15?

When i get up to the cottage I’ll look for that casting number and see what it say chances are it’s the same cause your assembly date stamp is a few days before ours

 

[jamesroney]

I am taking all the replies in and I appreciate the help. I guess the bottom line seems to be no one can prove it is original, or not, since so much is unknown all I know for sure is I believe the guy who owned it for a half century kept every document including the how to use the 4wheel drive pamphlet. Every
receipt, there are 20 from Napa for 2 dollar seals and gaskets over 4 decades- who does that! as well as handwritten notes. I don’t see him hiding a short block or head replacement because it might impact the originality for a six cylinder truck that was nothing special until maybe 10 years ago, if even that. And again what are the odds in the 80s when it would have been time to freshen up the engine he happened to find a 170 built weeks after the original 170? Heck, why would you even put a 170 back in when a 200 would have been better and easier?

So maybe this will just have to remain a mystery how a truck with an Aug vin has a block with a lower forge date in aug and an upper build stamp from Oct then it’s sold at a dealership in the same city it was made 3 days after the upper stamp was struck. What did the guy with a chisel stand next to the trucks leaving the factory?

I may just go with the story Henry pulled this one off the line in August for a special build for the queen of England, but in October she decided she wanted a mustang instead

That said. I do love a good mystery

Has anyone ever looked at the surviving Aug u15’s believed to have original motors for patterns? Vin vs block casting vs stamp on top?

How many in this forum have one and can help solve the mystery of the Loch Ness u15?

This is nonsense. We have used the shorthand to describe the casting date, and we keep saying “5H” because We are comparing it to “5K” and that is interesting in your case ONLY. You have the rest of the casting code, but I can’t read it on my phone. 5Hnn. The last two digits tell you the exact DAY that it came out of the foundry. The date clock will also tell you the hour and shift.

So we know exactly when the block left the foundry. Give me the date code on your intake, and I’ll know when the engine was ACTUALLY assembled. And not some random assemblers stamp code mistake.

 

[towood]

And for those willing to help by looking at their Aug built broncos. If you could share vin/lower block stamp and upper block stamp numbers it may help with a mystery. Here is a synopsis of the story to date

U15fl733138 was bought in lansing on 19oct1965 (photo) by a fine working guy who served in the army and went on to work for Martin block an then as an equipment foreman for Michigan DOT. He kept everything from the beginning (photo) and seemingly every receipt (photo) as he owned it for 50 years, and I mean he kept everything.

Sidebar, I added up almost 150 receipts over 5 decades in a spreadsheet and it cost him $ 2645.18 to buy and $9,023.59 to maintain it for 50 years. (Photo) Try that with new car! No surprise, a lot when to driveline seals and mufflers

A receipt for tires in 86 was a time stamp for 104026 miles. He must have retired shortly after that. Btw, lived in east tawas and lansing. All his life

Toward the end he slowed down, as we all do and in 2013 he was only at 120868. He died in 2020 When sold by the family most of the original 66 parts remained as he bought them. (Photo). Today it has a little over 121k on it

All of this backstory is to support there is zero indication he every replaced an engine, head or short block. Indeed I can document parts to rebuild the head and the purchase of main bearings. I believe like most of his generation he was a competent and frugal mechanic, prone to repair vice replace

Soooo

If this is accurate and this truck has its original engine, this vehicle may help fill in blanks during a period where quality control and records were not perfect

Here is the anomaly, and please note I would have never gotten this far without reading input from people on here who are much smarter than me in all things bronco

The vin suggests any early build bronco likely in Aug of 65 Number 1138 of the trucks/broncos

The block number suggests 25aug (photo) and the stamp on top suggests 8October (photo) keep in mind it is sold days later in oct in lansing

Question. Is this at all tied to the BUDD thing, ie did they build the bodies in early Aug and ford put in motors built later in the month? Then maybe since they were just figuring it out, for the first ones some guy just stamped the top of the engine right before sold?

Apologies for the Long thread, with a truck with original records like this one, maybe this is more than me wondering about a motor to maybe a chance to piece together what the heck was going on in Aug of 65!

 

[towood]

When i get up to the cottage I’ll look for that casting number and see what it say chances are it’s the same cause your assembly date stamp is a few days before ours

Much appreciated!!!!!!!!!!

 

[towood]

This is nonsense. We have used the shorthand to describe the casting date, and we keep saying “5H” because We are comparing it to “5K” and that is interesting in your case ONLY. You have the rest of the casting code, but I can’t read it on my phone. 5Hnn. The last two digits tell you the exact DAY that it came out of the foundry. The date clock will also tell you the hour and shift.

So we know exactly when the block left the foundry. Give me the date code on your intake, and I’ll know when the engine was ACTUALLY assembled. And not some random assemblers stamp code mistake.

Code looks like 5h25. Maybe 26. Intake is. C6de-6090-b. Ahead of that number is 5j6
Man. Pls don’t tell me that’s 6sep What the heck

 

[jamesroney]

Code looks like 5h25. Maybe 26. Intake is. C6de-6090-b. Ahead of that number is 5j6
Man. Pls don’t tell me that’s 6sep What the heck

OK, now it's getting a little weird... and yes, that's 6-Sep-1965.

 

[blade]

All of this backstory is to support there is zero indication he every replaced an engine, head or short block. Indeed I can document parts to rebuild the head and the purchase of main bearings. I believe like most of his generation he was a competent and frugal mechanic, prone to repair vice replace

Maybe the head cracked and he was given a head that just happened to have a very close date stamp. If the head was given to him that could be why there is not a receipt.

 

[towood]

Maybe the head cracked and he was given a head that just happened to have a very close date stamp. If the head was given to him that could be why there is not a receipt.

Agree. Undocumented work before he bought it is for sure a possibility. If after he bought it I sure would guess he would keep that of all things. For potential future fsulures

I think if a few others have builds where the vin/intake/block all make sense we can chalk this up to an exercise in futility. But if several have this disconnect in dates maybe it helps explain the gap in missing records for future questions.

 

[towood]

Maybe the head cracked and he was given a head that just happened to have a very close date stamp. If the head was given to him that could be why there is not a receipt.

But that might work. Built in august. Gets a late aug motor, fails final inspection and pulled off the line, gets a sep head, by the time fixed it is stamped as October?

I would love to hear from another owner with a close vin on how they should really read, ie aug vin aug block casting aug intake and an Aug stamp on top

 

[Viperwolf1]

Any idea of the mileage when it was first sold? Maybe the dealer used it as a demo and something happened to the engine a month after they got it. Dealer could have replaced the engine and might not have even told the customer when he bought it. It wouldn't be uncommon. My '74 had a C4 casting date that was several months later than the Bronco build date.

 

[towood]

Any idea of the mileage when it was first sold? Maybe the dealer used it as a demo and something happened to the engine a month after they got it. Dealer could have replaced the engine and might not have even told the customer when he bought it. It wouldn't be uncommon. My '74 had a C4 casting date that was several months later than the Bronco build date.

That’s an interesting possibility no joy on mileage benchmarks on the title or BOS. I am liking there is at least one possible combination!

 

[towood]

out of curiosity, so far one owner has graciously agreed to look at his numbers. Any idea how many on the forum have an Aug/sep 66 with the original motor?

 

[mebco09]

Any idea of the mileage when it was first sold? Maybe the dealer used it as a demo and something happened to the engine a month after they got it. Dealer could have replaced the engine and might not have even told the customer when he bought it. It wouldn't be uncommon. My '74 had a C4 casting date that was several months later than the Bronco build date.

Probably the most likely scenario. Arrived to the dealer's inventory with a defect. Replaced with service replacement, either head or whole block, and sold. I'm sure it happens all the time.

 

[fordfan]

But that might work. Built in august. Gets a late aug motor, fails final inspection and pulled off the line, gets a sep head, by the time fixed it is stamped as October?

I would love to hear from another owner with a close vin on how they should really read, ie aug vin aug block casting aug intake and an Aug stamp on top

My early built (735xxx) Springtime '66 Roadster, "Buttercup" is a 56,000 mile survivor that has the original engine and it still had the original brake shoes and shocks. The engine tags and stamps are in place and are marked with a 5J. This includes the block stamp, the engine tag on the coil bolt and the carburetor tag. All marked with a "5J"!

 

[towood]

Probably the most likely scenario. Arrived to the dealer's inventory with a defect. Replaced with service replacement, either head or whole block, and sold. I'm sure it happens all the time.

Starting to think so. But still wierd combo. Late Aug block. Sep head and Oct overall stamp.