'67 refresh

[Slackkinhard]

trying to post a pic, but evidently I can't handle it

 

[DirtDonk]

To upload an image directly from your device to the post you need to become a contributor for 12 bucks a year. Alternately you can use another image hosting site and link the pics to the discussion. Or you can upload them to your "garage" and "gallery" functions in your User CP in the upper left portion of the page.
The 12 bucks makes it easier and supports the site, but those are the different ways to do it.

Actually more a pita than I thought

There are a couple of tricks that make installing and removing the front coils easier, but great you got it done!
If you had trouble getting an appropriate wrench/socket on the lower two bolts holding the lower spring cup/retainer in place, you can simply loosen them (without removing them completely), remove the top strap clamp and then "unscrew" the coil spring to get it out.
Saves the trouble of all those short arcs trying to loosen the bolts through a coil.

I need some new shocks, so I needed to measure some things with the springs installed.

Is the full weight of the vehicle on the springs? Whether on the ground or just on jack stands, don't do any final settings or measurements until it's entirely back together and nothing like an engine is out.
If you buy new springs of whatever height you want then whoever sells you the shocks should know what part numbers you need for a particular shock.
Does not hurt to have the exact measurements of course, but they're not always necessary to choose a shock.
Nice as a double-check though.

Now that I've done that, I'm considering replacing the springs. Started looking at the Duff and TBP sites and looks like for the money, I'd be a fool not too. Do I need any other measurements to choose appropriate springs? Is there a way for me to know if I have 2.5 or 3.5" lift?

yes, measure between the top of the axle tube and the bottom of the frame rail. Stock front measurement is approx. 7" and the stock height rear measurement is 6 inches. Give or take an option or two.
Anything above those measurements is your lift.

 

[Slackkinhard]

great! Thank you. I have this junky old flip phone that I need to download the pics to the computer, sometimes I fail to do that properly. I'll get it done and send the $12.
I still have the engine/drivetrain installed, but didn't connect the front driveline. I installed the springs, put stands under the axle, then measured the 'static' distance between shock mounts. Not exactly sure why they need that number? Seems the shortest and longest articulated lengths are more important? Just wondering, but this is what I found. I've got dual shocks, the aft shock up front is 20" center to center on the mounts. The fwd shock mounts are 20.5" on side and 21" on the other. A little screwy, but all the mounts look straight and the original install looks proper. I didn't install the trac bar, and I haven't exactly tightened up everything to spec yet. I installed new C-bushings so I may have some adjustment to do...
I measured from top of axle to bottom of the frame and I get 8.5" on both sides. Maybe my springs sagged or something, but it didn't look any different to me.

 

[Slackkinhard]

After measuring the rear, some memories are returning. I've got 7.5" in the rear between the axle and the frame. It seems I've gotta 1.5" suspension lift, with a 1.5" body lift obtained by cutting 3" blocks in half. I've always run 32" tires without any clearance issues and it handled big hits reasonably well...doesn't look like I ever bent/broke anything. Maybe I should just order shocks and be done with it? I don't want to get into lots of combos to get a small gain. What happens if I order those springs for a 2.5" lift? Seems my whole geometry changes?

 

[DirtDonk]

I installed the springs, put stands under the axle, then measured the 'static' distance between shock mounts. Not exactly sure why they need that number?

I think it's just backup and double-checks. Everyone selling common shocks (the under-150 buck variety) has a shock specified for a certain amount of lift. But not only does measuring the mounts rule out any discrepancies, but in your case you already have dual shock mounts so things could be different. The sellers just want to make sure they get you the right shock the first time.

Seems the shortest and longest articulated lengths are more important?

Perhaps, but within the parameters set by the physical space limitations of an Early Bronco AND the fact that a given shock only has a given amount of travel, and most people don't have the ability (or the desire) to flex their suspension to it's maximum and take measurements, then the distance at static ride height becomes the standard measurement.

Going with min/max measurements and expecting to take advantage of them usually means custom shock mounts based on your individual suspension's ability to compress and extend.
Most of us just want an out-of-the-box solution without all the drama.

I've got dual shocks, the aft shock up front is 20" center to center on the mounts. The fwd shock mounts are 20.5" on side and 21" on the other. A little screwy, but all the mounts look straight and the original install looks proper.

The slight discrepancies are probably more common than we think. Even a slight change in angle of the lower mount on the axle housing, or a slight change in location of the upper mount would account for that 1/2" variation.
Not enough to change which shock you choose.

I measured from top of axle to bottom of the frame and I get 8.5" on both sides. Maybe my springs sagged or something, but it didn't look any different to me.

After measuring the rear, some memories are returning. I've got 7.5" in the rear between the axle and the frame. It seems I've gotta 1.5" suspension lift, with a 1.5" body lift obtained by cutting 3" blocks in half.

Visuals are hard. Hence the need to measure. But since you didn't have measurements from the original installation, it's hard to say.
Or as you found out, it might just be a 1.5" lift after all.

I've always run 32" tires without any clearance issues and it handled big hits reasonably well...doesn't look like I ever bent/broke anything.

A 32 will fit with stock height suspension and cut fenders. With your lift and cut and flared fenders you could almost run 35's!
Are your fenders cut? Or still stock?

Maybe I should just order shocks and be done with it? I don't want to get into lots of combos to get a small gain. What happens if I order those springs for a 2.5" lift? Seems my whole geometry changes?

Yep, everything effects something else. And you need to decide on a height now, or you might be buying two sets of shocks!
A typical range for a given shock is from 0 to 2 inches of lift. Then from 2.5 to 4 inches of lift. But you can change that slightly depending on whether you want your shocks biased more to extension than compression, or vice versa.
Or it might depend on the brand and model of shock you choose, if theirs varies from another brand.

Paul

 

[Slackkinhard]

Thank you Paul. So much good information. I have uncut fronts and the rears are cut with flares. I think I'm going with what I got, order some shocks that fit and finish the job I started. Do you have any preference for shocks that might fit my application? It seems all the internet sites have something, but the Wild Horses site has a 1.5" lift kit. It seems I bought my kit from an outfit called K Bar S back in the day. Are you associated with wild horses? If so, would I do myself right by ordering that 1.5" set of springs an associated WH shock? After driving it a while, I'll decide if I need to do anything else.

 

[DirtDonk]

Yes, KbarS was a well liked and respected shop out of Las Vegas and various spots over the years. Some big discussion threads here on the forum with members that still have not only KbarS parts and catalogs (and the much loved decals) but even some KbarS built Broncos still surviving!

I am with Wild Horses in fact. Where are you located and what do you intend to do with the Bronco? I don't remember if we've already talked about your intended uses, other than tire size. What about current setup too, such as do you have any heavy bumpers, winches and other accessories hanging off the ends?

I happen to like the 1.5" a lot and glad we brought it back. It's perfect for an uncut, and perfect for a Bronco with modest size tires like yours. I have a 2.5 plus 1 inch body lift and even though I like it, would probably have been even happier with the 1.5 and 1 for just poking around the street.
I do intend to go four-wheeling still (that's my real reason for owning an old Bronco after all) but not sure when I'll ever have the time again. Meantime I'm almost daily-driving the uncut '68 with 31" tires.

I like the Bilstein 5100's for general street use and cost. They're more than the standard shocks, but less than the adjustable Rancho 9000's. And certainly less than the upscale super shocks like Fox and others I can't remember. Even the Bilstein 7100's are in the $225 per shock range, so are not for the casual experimenter in my opinion.
They are "better" but not sure they're worth if at this stage in your buildup.

And for the duals, I would leave it at singles for now. Not just for saving money, which I'm against if spending more gets you more, but because for most of us a single shock is more than enough to handle most uses our Broncos see these days.
Are you set up for duals both front and rear? So am I, and what I would recommend is keeping the mounts installed at this point, but utilizing only a single shock per wheel to start with. If you feel you need more after driving it your way, then you can add another pair to the front or rear.
I'm going to do that just for experimenting purposes, but not until I've dialed other things in to my satisfaction first.

If you want a single shock that can handle just about anything, it's hard to argue against the RS9000's from Rancho. You can adjust them from super soft to super stiff, with 10 steps of adjustment. Hard not to find a setting that can handle just about anything.
My only beef with them was that as long as I had them on my '71 I was never quite satisfied that I was getting the best street ride possible out of my springs. Sure, it's not a Cadillac, but I felt it was leaving just a little smoothness on the table with the 9000's.
My experience with the Bilstein 5100's is that they're better on the street than any of the Rancho damping settings (or any of the other shocks I ever ran for that matter), but are just a bit soft for my front with heavy winch and bumper hanging way out there.
Hence my intention of adding a second shock at least up front to see if I still like the ride even after I settle the handling down.

Our WH shocks are in a similar boat to similar shocks. They're good quality but basic and at a lower price. Some love them, some think they're too soft, others think they're too stiff. Kind of like the Bilsteins. Go figure...
Luckily from feedback both from our customers directly and from here, the Bilstein 5100's have a larger following of satisfied users.

There are other shocks out there that others will recommend, and I'm sure they're good. It's just that it sounds like a $200 shock is a crap-shoot until you spend more time behind the wheel and a $45-$105 shock gives you more for your buck initially.
One common aspect of the higher priced shocks in their favor though, is that once you've done your diligence in testing, the big boys are not only rebuildable, but also re-valveable so you can have them fine-tuned to your desires. This is costly, but it's a very big deal and an advantage for those using their Broncos regularly and having paid their entry fee into the big leagues.

Lots of choices then. With lots of opinions. The only one that counts though, is yours. And the only way to get there from here is to try one!
And speaking of dampening... How's that for wishy washy!

Paul

 

[DirtDonk]

Sorry 'bout that. Just re-read your first post and see you're in the PNWet and have full dual custom setup with currently Deutsch Tech shocks. No wonder you're ready for something new!
I actually sold a lot of the DT shocks in their day, and they were pretty darn good. But they did not age well for some reason and it did not take long for users to note the deterioration in ride quality and damping ability off road. Not sure what made them different from other brands that were made by the same company, but they were.
Here again, the reports were all over the map. Too hard, too soft, just right.

The Duff brand shocks are well regarded and their new ones are probably better than the old ones if they've made running adjustments to their characteristics over the years they've been selling them with their suspensions. Usually very good stuff you can trust.
But now I see why others are asking for shock mount measurements and that's going to continue. You have only one original mount, and that's the rear/rear mount. The front hoop with the cut-off stock mount means that, while we can give a close guess, there's no guarantee of accuracy based on just the lift height alone. The new mounts could have been welded on to the frame over a range of heights. Between that and the different designs on hoops over the years, it's best to get that measurement.
You can still use a static height measurement. You just can't make assumptions on which shock.

Of the shocks we carry, only the Bilstein lists a valving value. Which means that if you can't find a single shock with the typical heavy valving for the front, you could opt for two lighter valved shocks instead. More options...

Rancho lists a couple of part numbers that are specifically valved to be used as dual shocks, but your being able to utilize them depends on your measurements.

Paul

 

[Slackkinhard]

At some point I experimented with the adjustable Ranchos and to be honest, given my dual setup on all 4 corners, it wasn't any better and the adjustability was so slight I couldn't see spending the money. The deutch tech 'prerunner' had basically the same ride for far less. I like the look of the duals up front and I want to stay with it. I live north of Seattle in the PNWet so I was kinda looking for a slightly softer version of what is on it. My days of tahoe or north rim of the canyon are over. I like to poke around on the state offroad routes which are usually traversable with 31" tire equipped 4x4 with minor damage risk. I'm really just wondering if that spring WH has is softer than the one I got.

 

[Slackkinhard]

I'm really leaning toward those 1.5" springs and a set of the WH shocks. I'm wondering now though if I have the wrong degree C-bushing installed. I was going on the 2.5" lift assumption when I ordered them and I got the 7 degree installed. Jeez, guess I'm going to get good at this....

 

[DirtDonk]

Can't say for certain, but chances are pretty good (like 90%) that our front coils are softer. The variable rate aspect usually gives a very soft initial ride over small bumps, then gets much stiffer over the big stuff.
But that's also why I asked about weighty things like winches. If the soft section is fully taken up by excess weight hanging off the front, much of the soft initial ride is already gone and you can get back to the stiff settings.
I love them on my '71 though (3.5" springs) and can attest to their soft and compliant ride on the street.

If you're wanting to keep the duals, then any of the basic shocks, or the lighter valved Bilstein shocks (like in the 255/80 range maybe?) would be decent choices.
Maybe others have their preference when it comes to duals with a particular valving.
But I'm going to try something lighter than the typical 298/94 valving.

Paul

 

[DirtDonk]

yes you will! But not to worry about the bushings yet. Look at your pinion angle as it sits with the 7° bushings and if it's good then just leave them in for now.
It's hard to have too much caster with Early Broncos before '76, so you likely won't be anywhere near too much with your '67.
The only reason in my opinion for you to go down to a 4 would be pinion angle.

Paul

 

[Slackkinhard]

great info. I'm doing it. Ordering the WH spring and 4 shocks. Wild Horses logos will look good with my pumpkin orange on black scheme. McDonaland bronco. I have minimal front bumper weight although was considering a prerunner 2" bar....nothing with weight though. I need that initial softness to smooth the cobble stone trails in the eastern half of our state. They call them the Green Dots and they let ya cover a lot of barren lands. Cool geology in this state

 

[Slackkinhard]

really want to get this thing on the road....been working on it far longer than I initially thought. Started as a rewire...

 

[helo-mech]

Â…Â…. Started as a rewire...

I feel ya there; this started as a simple power steering pump replacement/upgrade. Glad you came out with a game plan.

 

[DirtDonk]

great info. I'm doing it. Ordering the WH spring and 4 shocks.

Great, thanks! Glad you have a direction for now.
Be an interesting transition from old to new. Make sure to get pics of it around town and on the back roads when you get it back on the road after the swap.

Paul

 

[Slackkinhard]

Thanks Paul, really appreciate it. Do you know if those seat heater elements are a good idea? My lady is sort of demanding them. I'd like to accommodate, but don't want a problem. I've got the original seats, so I need to rebuild them...or maybe there is another solution. I've looked at all kinds of used seats, but really not excited to figure out ergos/fitment/install. I think I'll be happy with the lowbacks...hard to say if my back will need more.

 

[Slackkinhard]

ordered the springs from WH, but they didn't have any shocks available for me. I think I'll order 4 from TBP so I can get this on the road. Going to leave the rear shocks alone for the time being, maybe mix n match is in my future.

 

[Rustytruck]

Thanks Paul, really appreciate it. Do you know if those seat heater elements are a good idea? My lady is sort of demanding them. I'd like to accommodate, but don't want a problem. I've got the original seats, so I need to rebuild them...or maybe there is another solution. I've looked at all kinds of used seats, but really not excited to figure out ergos/fitment/install. I think I'll be happy with the lowbacks...hard to say if my back will need more.

you can add headrests to the back of the stock seat and new foam and seat skins makes all things old like new.

 

[DirtDonk]

Do you know if those seat heater elements are a good idea? My lady is sort of demanding them.

I think seat heaters in general are a great thing. Just not sure exactly if there is anything to be concerned about when installing then in stock seats.
We sell the model by Procar (https://www.wildhorses4x4.com/product/Trimable_Seat_Heater/Bronco_Procar_Seats), which is probably the one they include in their own seats when you order that option. Have sold them to customers with Procar seats as an add-on, but never tried fitting one into a stock seat. Probably works, just not sure how it's fitted.

Maybe someone else here has done it.

Paul