74 Bronco Front Hubs - Help which inner hub bearing part#?

[CA650]

Guys,

Any pointers or help would be much appreciated. I'm trying to return my 74 bronco front hubs to stock after someone did a GM disk upgrade. (I can explain why later if it becomes important)

I have ordered and re-ordered used hubs.. and I now have 4 used front hubs and I'm trying to get two that work.

Napa told me the right bearing and Oil seals are the following:
Napa BR37 larger bearing
Napa BR35 smaller bearing
Napa 24917 Napa Oil Seal.

Well - I have 4 front hubs that the parts supplier said came off a 75.
My bronco is a 74. but OK

One of these hubs is different from the others... (this is not a sesame street joke) someone sent me a "set" of hubs that didn't match and then re-sent me another set.
So now I have 4.

Here's the situation:
Hub Candidate #1 -
Napa 24917 Oil seal fits,
BR37 Large Bearing fits
BR35 Bearing just drops in and doesn't seem to fit - loose inside the tube

Hub Candidates #2, #3
Napa 24917 Oil Seal is too big... does not fit
BR37 Large Bearing fits
BR35 Bearing just drops in and doesn't seem to fit - loose inside the tube

Hub Candidate #4
Napa 24917 oil seal is too big
BR37 and BR35 seem to fit

On the spindles the br37 seems right
The br35 seems a little small.. this would all make sense if hubs #2 and #3 are good and the be35 bearing and oil seal are not right

Any ideas??
I suppose I can go get an Oil Seal of some kind to fit.. but I thought the BR35 bearing was supposed to be correct. and it makes me think I've got something wrong..

My current hypothesis is that.. I can get an oil seal that fits these other hubs someplace.. but why this one doesn't fit concerns me..

and the smaller bearing must be wrong since it seems to sit a little high/tight on the spindle so maybe that's just the wrong bearing and I need one slightly larger.

I don't know!

Here are the bearing sitting on the spindle which I hope is stock and correct for my year.

https://74bronco.shutterfly.com/pictures/95

and here are the 4 hubs i'm trying to make two good ones out of this pile of parts!

https://74bronco.shutterfly.com/pictures/92


Thinking...
Either Napa got the parts right for a 74 bronco dana 44 and the 75 hubs are different/wrong

Or these are the wrong napa parts for the outer bearing and oil seal.

IDK - I've been messing around with it for 2 weeks now.
Very frustrated.

 

[DirtDonk]

I just glossed through it for the moment, but will go back over it to get it straight in my head.
When you say "hub" are you referring to the main bearing hub, or the locking mechanism? Seems the lockout, but wanted to be sure.
Also, are you returning your Bronco to drum brakes? Or keeping it with the existing disc setup?

All '66 to '77 Broncos will take the same locking mechanism no matter what manufacturer they're from.
All wheel bearings for the Ford setup remained the same all the way from '66 to '77.
There were two different "bearing hubs" based on the wheel bearing seal, but the bearing pockets accepted the same races.

If keeping with discs you don't change any thing but the lockout. And of course, caliper and bracket if changing to Ford discs.
If going drums, then yes you need to change a few things. But even the GM disc setup uses a Ford bearing hub and rotor ('76 and '77 Bronco/F150) so even if swapping to Ford discs, you can retain the same hub & rotor.

The generic number for the seal is #4250 from '71.5 to '77.
Not sure how that crosses over to Napa numbers.

Now I'll go back and see if I can discern any pattern to your numbers and the dilemma.
But it should not be a problem for the guys at the counter to pick the right parts anymore. The old computer mistakes should have been weeded out by now. A '74 Bronco is pretty basic stuff.

Paul

 

[DirtDonk]

Oops, forgot to mention that pics would be good so we can see the variables on some of the components.
(edit: oops! nevermind, I see that I neglected to look at the links you posted!)

Paul

 

[DirtDonk]

Are there numbers etched into the sides of the bearings and cups? Such as those beginning with the letters "LM" or similar?

And is that a new spindle, supposedly correct for a '74? I did not see mention of new spindles, and if you're going back to drum brakes you will need the drum brake spindles.

Paul

 

[DirtDonk]

Forgot to confirm that it sounds like you have the correct bearings as long as the numbers on them jive with the numbers that should be in the boxes.
The BR numbers are the same as the standard A numbers, as 35 and 37 respectively are correct for your Bronco.

Whichever hub the seal fits should work then, as long as it's a drum brake hub.
Do you have the drums already? Look like they're going to fit?

Paul

 

[CA650]

Hey Paul - Thanks. Pictures were contained on the links in the original post and also below.
I took a photo of the bearings sitting on the spindle. That is supposed to be a stock spindle from a 75 which I hope is stock and ok for my 74.

I am returning to 1974 spindles and hubs because. The 6 piston Wilwood front disk brake kit I have assumes that the hubs and spindles are stock I believe. My Bronco had a GM disk brake conversion with the spindle that goes with that. The Wilwood kit for the bronco doesn't seem to fit with that setup.

So I am trying to go back to stock 74 spindle and hub to see if I can get the wildwood 6 piston bronco kit to fit.

The hubs someone sold me are all in the pictures.. The BR37 bearings fit but the BR35 bearing just drop into the holes and seem too loose/not right and I think they look a little tight on the spindles too making me think they are wrong. Pictures of the bearings sitting on the spindle is also attached.

The smaller bearings number reads LM501349 sold to me by Napa (also stamped China M100)


https://74bronco.shutterfly.com/pictures/95
https://74bronco.shutterfly.com/pictures/92

 

[CA650]

In 3 out of the 4 hubs, those outer smaller bearings just drop right into the sockets - I think they should be tighter and should require being pressed into the sockets so the bearings seem like one size too small for the hubs

So either these bearings are slightly too small or 3 out of 4 hubs are the wrong hubs.
But the hubs have no distinguishing marks.

Unless you guys tell me that the outer bearing is supposed to fit sort of lose like that???

 

[DirtDonk]

You mean the race, correct? If so then no, it's supposed to be tight and you have to carefully tap them in with proper tools. They don't need a big press or anything like that, but they can't just spin in the hub either.

Many hubs already have the races installed though. Are you sure that there are no existing races and that your new races don't fit tight? If so, then the hubs are probably trashed.
I suppose they could be the wrong ones, but it's also possible that they are just buggered from misuse.

The number you posted above is for the smaller outer bearing, that pairs up with an LM501310 and is the same bearing for all Broncos with standard hubs. There may have been an odd '90's-ish model or two that used a different one, but otherwise it's the correct one for your '74 and a '75.
So does the race/cup say LM501310 on it anywhere?

Can you put up some pics of the insides of the hubs too?

Thanks

Paul

 

[tirewater]

In 3 out of the 4 hubs, those outer smaller bearings just drop right into the sockets - I think they should be tighter and should require being pressed into the sockets so the bearings seem like one size too small for the hubs

So either these bearings are slightly too small or 3 out of 4 hubs are the wrong hubs.
But the hubs have no distinguishing marks.

Unless you guys tell me that the outer bearing is supposed to fit sort of lose like that???

Tap the outer bearing race out of the hub and see if it is a proper race for the bearing. Then you'll definitively know if the bearing you have works with the race in the hub.

 

[CA650]

The bearings come new with their Race.
The hubs are empty and the inner bearing race fit fine on all the hubs
The outer race that goes down into the hubs tube is too loose. It does not need to be pressed in.. it slides right in to 3 out of the 4 hubs.

That is bad/not right. It SHOULD need to be pressed in.
But instead it just drops in.

I can see people are having trouble understanding what I’m saying. I’m going to shoot video of it and post it.

 

[CA650]

The outer race that is too loose is marked LM501310
The bearing that go in that race are marked LM501349
The race will spin in the hubs
The hubs have no other race inside there

 

[DirtDonk]

Getting back to the hubs, based on using that seal you have, I'd say you only have one good hub to work with for now.
The seal appears to be correct based on the Napa website, so those other hubs may be for an earlier model Bronco. Or something else.

Talk to the supplier of the hubs to see if they could possibly be for older Broncos, OR take one down to the NAPA store again and see if the seal for a '68 happens to fit.
I believe it should be a 24904 but they can confirm or deny that rumor...

Paul

 

[DirtDonk]

The outer race that is too loose is marked LM501310
The bearing that go in that race are marked LM501349
The race will spin in the hubs
The hubs have no other race inside there

buggered hubs, or just the wrong ones.
No idea what else they might be from though, since Scouts, Broncos, Jeeps, and F150's all use the same bearing and race combination.
So if the race does not fit, and they are Ford hubs, they're buggered.

Paul

 

[DirtDonk]

I can see people are having trouble understanding what I’m saying. I’m going to shoot video of it and post it.

Nah, that was me earlier, but I think we're on the same page now.
You're pretty clear, but the last questions I had were just to make sure you were clear on what you were seeing since there are multiple ways this could not fit.

But it sounds like you know your way around a hub and bearing and the race just does not fit.
In which case, the hubs are at fault because the bearing numbers are confirmed correct.

Paul

 

[DirtDonk]

Although a video would still be good!

Paul

 

[CA650]

surprising there would be 3 hubs all with the same issue all seem like they are off in the same way.

Here's what it looks like
https://youtu.be/KumRUYffREQ

 

[DirtDonk]

Still can't quite see in that pic, but isn't there an additional step just below that? If so, that's where it presses in. Seems like it needs to go further inward past the splines.
But I'm just going off of memory and do not have one here to look at.

Do you have one of your other ones from the vehicle, with a race still installed?
Is that as deep as it goes, or is there just one more level of machined surface for it to press in to?

Paul

 

[CA650]

Paul - I'm really embarrassed - I think that lower step you can see, is the old race that I have looked at closely and thought was the sidewall of the hub.

I have one.. hosed up hub in which the new race does spin..
and I have one.. that I think was hosed up.. but that one.. seems to have the race inside and it fooled me. I think you solved it!

It does not solve the problem of why the oil seals don't fit. but you gave me a path to go chase on that too. Now I'll have to decide if I want to pound out the old race to install a new one.. or throw the new bearings on top of the old race.

Thanks man.

 

[DirtDonk]

Well there ya go.
Hope you're close to the parts store so it's not a big burden for that "just one more trip" to see if the seal issue is indeed a year model thing.
I don't have the specs on the old vs new seal, so can't tell you which one should be larger and which smaller.

But if the area around the seal seat looks chewed up too, I have seen issues where the seal was not able to press in anymore because of damage caused when the bearings worked loose and the back side of the hub took some metal-to-metal grinding action.

Paul

 

[66BlueGoose]

Hi Paul,
For my education, on this statement you made "There were two different "bearing hubs" based on the wheel bearing seal, but the bearing pockets accepted the same races." Are you refereeing to the just the Dana 44 or across all Bronco years? I know the Dana 30 had an early and late one, want to understand if the later one crossed over to the 44 or if it has its own.

CA650,
Since you have the new races I would put them in. You can do by hand but press makes it easier. Is 650 your area code? Are you Bay Area? If so, I am in the East Bay, happy to let you drop by my place and we can swap them out on my press. I also have a few spare hubs, if you don't have something that works.