Aluminum Head Suggestions for 408W Stroker

[Bronco_69]

heads need to be sized for the engine size and desired rpm range. putting TW 170cc heads on a 408 is retarded. it will run but you may as well have a 302 because you are gonna get 302 power out of your 408. the tw 170 heads are geared towards a very MILD 302 set up.

 

[barronj]

buy a head w 300plus flow number on the intake side 225 or 235cc intake runner I'm building a 408 for my mud truck right now and I've been on the virtual online dyno web sight a head that flows 305 on a 408 with 610 lift make 590 hp at 6600rpms

Worst. Advice. Ever.

A mud truck is comparable to an eighth mile pony car. You probably have the skinny pedal on the floor the entire time, concerned only with life above 4000rpm. I mean, the goal there is not to crawl through the mud, it's to haul as much ass, sling as much mud, make it to the end before you bog down tires-spinning.

the tw 170 heads are geared towards a very MILD 302 set up.

So why do they offer a 170cc head with spring rates of .600 out of the box? That's not a mild 302 cam. That head, 10:1 compression, good exhaust/intake & good cam would probably net you 300 to the wheels in a mustang. That's 360 to the crank before parasitic loss. There are people on this board who have 351 strokers, good heads, and make under 250hp at the wheels when dynoed.

As was stated before, port volume & cam/valve timing events can create killer velocities that will yield smiles by the miles. I wouldn't run a larger head than a 185 or 190cc on any 351 based block that was going to push around 35"+ tires, 4200# of weight, etc, focused on grunt. That's just me.

 

[needabronco]

I have to agree! My truck is driven frequently on the street and wheeled, RARELY does my tack hit the 5K mark and if it does it's only there for a fraction of a second.

DD's and wheelers, want max torque as LOW as possible where it will actually get used. A racer or mud truck you want max mid to high rpm power...

I want a 408 to make 90% of it's power between 1500-2500 RPM's where it will actually be usable...

 

[Bronco_69]

why build a 408 when a 418 is the same price?



oh, any 408/418 (no matter how big the head) will have more torque off idle then the 302 that you have now. there is only so much torque that you can use at 1500 rpm's in a DD. can you say tire spin at every stop sign and scary driving on wet roads.

 

[needabronco]

I understand this, but making power well above where the engine will be used is useless and wasted expense to 90% of us... If I was going to 'race' my rig, then that's a different story.

 

[Bronco_69]

I understand this, but making power well above where the engine will be used is useless and wasted expense to 90% of us... If I was going to 'race' my rig, then that's a different story.

then why even build a 408 / 418 if you aint going to use it? what engine do you have in your rig?

 

[smoktf250]

afr 205's here

 

[HoosierDaddy]

The Trick Flow TW 170's flow out at 250 cfm if I recall ....

Not sure what is meant by not building/useing a 408/418 ..... ????? Not all motors are built for mud drags , 1/4 mile , 1/8mi ...whatever

I want a torque monster motor that will pull like a muthalovin freight train all the way to 6000 rpm , and the wife can drive it to the grocery or 2 1/2 hours to grammas house , a mildly cammed 408 with properly matched parts is the ticket. Yeah , a 351 would probably fit the bill too , but how much fun is that ?

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Reynard , I'm gonna see if I can crunch some numbers and find out how much flow a 408 is going to require.

A lot of people are going to automatically default to these settings , thats not alway correct :
302 = 165/170 cc intake runners
347/351 = 185's or so
408 = 205 and up
as mentioned earlier , it all depends on what rpm range you expect to run the motor at and what your expectations are for it.

Regarding your question about intakes , a 408 is most likely going to be beyond the capabilities of the typical truck lower with a BC's adapter and Mustang upper.
Maybe a GT40 intake , quite easily a bigger intake than that.
I know the 302 GT40's can be cleaned up enough to flow up to 250 cfm , which is the same amount the TF TW (trickflow Twisted wedges) 170's flow , which would be a pretty decnt match for a motor that will require that amount of flow.

 

[mavereq]

i went with afr 185's and made 493 ft lbs of torque at 3k rpm's. i still made good horsepower up to 5500 rpm's. i really don't think 205's are necessary for a 4wd.

 

[recoiljunky]

then why even build a 408 / 418 if you aint going to use it? what engine do you have in your rig?

Exactly. My 398 sees 5500 rpm every time I drive it. It's just too fun not to hold the skinny pedal down to the floor.

 

[rcmbronc]

Now I know these are probably not the greatest quality heads. I am seriously thinking about getting a set to see what is wrong with them. Decently sized for your app and priced good.

Ebay item number 330425612859


If I had the money it would be AFR's85 or 190Trick Flow.

 

[new to bronco]

I ran a set of the procomps off ebay 650 to my door, they were on 302 in drag car picked up almost 1 second in 1/8 so they work great had the 202 / 164 with 600 lift springs. screw in studs with plates , you will have to run longer pushrod because of the guide plates.

 

[addicted]

Man, all these opinions have got me confused. Im building a moderately built 351W and Im starting to wonder if I should even bother with expensive aluminum heads. lol

 

[Mr Rags]

reynard - I 'll throw my .02 in. I am building a 408 right now as well. My main objective was to get as much HP/TQ as possible in the 1k to 6k rpm range. I did a lot of research on the heads and cam. You could bolt on any aftermarket head and see improvement over a stock head but this is what I have found. The 170cc heads won't flow enough in a 408 to see good power up to 6k. The 205cc and bigger heads don't have much advantage unless used in a higher rpm application and sacrifice lower end torque. I went with a set of Pro Comp 190cc heads (right in the middle) with the 2.02/1.60 valves.

People will say the Pro Comp heads aren't good. But my engine builder buys the castings bare, checks them, then assembles them. Hope this helped. I know there is a lot of conflicting info out there.

 

[Nightstick]

Man, all these opinions have got me confused. Im building a moderately built 351W and Im starting to wonder if I should even bother with expensive aluminum heads. lol

Depends on how "moderate" you want it to be... When I was researching what heads I wanted I looked at the flow comparisons between the TFS 190s that I ended up buying, and the GT40/GT40P heads which would have been what I used otherwise. The TFS heads flow 30% +/- more CFM than ported the GT40s... that pretty much sold me!!! At the approximate lift my cam is running the CFM of the TFS heads was 258CFM where the ported GT40s was 205 CFM.

One thing to consider when buying assembled heads is the valve springs. My motor is a flat-tappet and the spring pressure was WAY too high on the TFS springs that came on the heads, so I had to swap them.

 

[KyleQ]

The real problem is knowing what you are reading - damn near every single article out there for stroker motors are geared for muscle car applications. A 205cc head is going to be better for a mud racer compared to a trail rider/crawler, depending on your RPM range.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Depends on how "moderate" you want it to be... When I was researching what heads I wanted I looked at the flow comparisons between the TFS 190s that I ended up buying, and the GT40/GT40P heads which would have been what I used otherwise. The TFS heads flow 30% +/- more CFM than ported the GT40s... that pretty much sold me!!! At the approximate lift my cam is running the CFM of the TFS heads was 258CFM where the ported GT40s was 205 CFM.

One thing to consider when buying assembled heads is the valve springs. My motor is a flat-tappet and the spring pressure was WAY too high on the TFS springs that came on the heads, so I had to swap them.

Keep in mind , I was only speaking of the GT40 intake manifolds.
The GT40 heads would be absolute crap on a 408 , compared to just about any aluminum head.
Even at that , well ported GT40 intakes just barely make the cut.

 

[englewoodcowboy]

I am planning on a set of RHS iron on my 302. Did some checking and you can have them port as well, much more affordable over aluminum. But that could all change tomorrow if the exploder I am stripping the serp off of has GT40 heads.....

 

[Crazybroncoman]

I like my Canfield Heads