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Aluminum spoolgun welding

Joined
Jan 8, 2006
Messages
47
Loc.
southwest WI
I recently bought a Miller Autoset 211 mig welder and got the spoolmate 100 spoolgun to go along with it. It works awesome for welding steel, but i cant seem to get the spoolgun to work right for welding aluminum. I am using 100 % argon gas, hobart ER5356 .030 aluminum solid wire, gas pressure around 25, and trying to weld some 1/8 thick material. I have tried tons of settings, but it always seems like the wire either burns up before it hits the material, or it just burns up and wont leave any bead. It also leaves the material very black and smoke covered. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.
 

bad 68

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Jul 1, 2010
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5356 is a very hard wire. You will have much beter luck with ER4043 on that material. Start by changing your wire for sure. I bet the smoke was very blue in the air! Make sure your polarity is right. Ground should be negative. If your welding where it's even slightly breezy turn your gas pressure up to 30-35. Then set the amp and wire speed acording to the chart on the welder it will be very close to optimum.
 

Broncofan76

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Jul 2, 2010
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Atlanta
subscribed! I have the same machine and would like to weld aluminum in the future - with the spool gun of course.
 

rjrobin2002

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Oct 13, 2007
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I weld lots of aluminum with a miller 252 and 30 a gun and the most important things for welding aluminum is clean aluminum with a stainless brush very well, your gun needs to be almost at a 90 degree angle to your weld, you can not angle your gun like steel mig welding. No wind can be blowing, so indoors is almost a must. A fresh cut edge from cutting it with a carbid tip skill saw blade is the best joint to weld. Watch some youtube videos of what your weld is suppose to look like.
 

rjrobin2002

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I wasted 200 bucks in argon and tons of material trying to get my Hobart 187 with a 3035 spoolgun to weld aluminum and never got one decent bead. I had 2 threads going a few years back with tons of advice and it would never do it. I had my Miller 252 delivered and the first weld I pulled the trigger on was beautiful, so my problem all along was my welder. I hope this is not your problem as the miller 211 is almost as large and nice as the 252. I bought the 252 cause most aluminum welder raved about it on internet reviews, plus you can switch between aluminum and steel with the pull of the trigger. I built a entire boat with it 2 years ago.

http://classicbroncos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=181868&page=3
 

Mike.thespike

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Joined
Nov 10, 2011
Messages
71
Loc.
Powell River B.C
temperature is everything if your metal is cold you wont get a good bead till it heats up the black smoke on your weld is your direction if your pulling and turns black then push your bead it will be shiny I cant remember what way to go I use a butane torch to pre heat the area im welding more voltage makes your bead flat hope this helps
 

pcf_mark

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jun 11, 2010
Messages
3,647
Are you getting a puddle to form? It will be much larger than a mig puddle and almost transparent. I have a Miller DVI with a spool gun and it does a good job on thicker aluminum over .125 but it takes a lot of heat or it will just make a bunch of bird poop looking stuff.
 

u10072

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May 18, 2007
Messages
2,249
Yea they are good on the thicker stuff but if you are really wanting to weld more than just an aluminum trailer-- a TIG is the way to go. I have worked with a spool gun before and I cant imagine doing it again and actually wanting someone to see the weld without it being all sanded. If you are building say a tank out of heavy material it will probably be a good option for you.

Just my thoughts.
 

rjrobin2002

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My Miller 252 with a spool gun loves 1/8" or larger and I use .030 5356 wire. I am sure it could weld .100", I would just have to move faster. Gun position, the right settings, and no wind is the most important steps. Your door with the suggested settings should get you close. What type of aluminum are you welding on?
 

bmc69

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Yea they are good on the thicker stuff but if you are really wanting to weld more than just an aluminum trailer-- a TIG is the way to go. I have worked with a spool gun before and I cant imagine doing it again and actually wanting someone to see the weld without it being all sanded. If you are building say a tank out of heavy material it will probably be a good option for you.

Just my thoughts.

I own a machine and fabrication shop that does a lot of aluminum fabrication. In that environment, the ratio between what we MIG and what we TIG is probably 80%-20%..maybe even 90%-10% MIG is FAR more productive; that is why aluminum structures like ships are 100% MIG welded (with some friction stir-welding thrown in perhaps). That said, we do TIG weld all of the fuel and hydraulic oil tanks that we build.

As previously noted, metal cleanliness and temperature are very important. The weld zone must be very carefully prepped and kept clean; only stainless steel wire brushes and a weld prep acid should be used just prior to attemtpting the bead.

We use 5356 wire almost exclusively. 4043 is a lower strength alloy and less resistant to corrosion. It's used primarily in areas where bead appearance is more important than weld strength.

We use a number of machines. Have two Profax spool guns, one on an Esab 250 and the other on a mobile Hobart Champion 16. Then we have an AIRCO wire feeder with push-pull gun that we feed with Miller CV power source..it holds a full size spool of wire. We only load that up for really big jobs...

Had another big ESAB 400A power source and full-size spool wire feeder but it got sent to some woodworking clown in Florida who said he could use it..
 

bad 68

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I We use 5356 wire almost exclusively. 4043 is a lower strength alloy and less resistant to corrosion. It's used primarily in areas where bead appearance is more important than weld strength.

..

This is fact about the 5356 and 4043.

It will be much easier to learn with the 4043 untill he gets the basics of aluminum.

Also unless you preheat your aluminum you may get balling up with no penitration untill the weld heats up. Also start on the edge of the metal not in the middle of a joint. The metal will start to melt easier on the edge.
 

Wyflyer

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Joined
Apr 1, 2008
Messages
2,920
Had another big ESAB 400A power source and full-size spool wire feeder but it got sent to some woodworking clown in Florida who said he could use it..

You'll get it back as soon as he learns he can't weld wood.
 

fordfan

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Sep 13, 2009
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We use both MIG and TIG on aluminum...... As stated: the MIG is so much faster and can be done with one hand (while the other is holding the components to be welded). We have a Lincoln spool gun that is very easily adjusted...fine tuned... and contrary to what was stated of only welding thicker materials, we weld down to .040 aluminum. That is with a .035 4043 wire. The spool gun operates off of a Power MIG 255 that welds steel and aluminum. A switch on the front swaps power from the feeder to the spool gun and automatically swaps the gas from mixed argon to pure. The machine has two gas bottles ..... I have been really impressed with the performance of the unit. (and this machine is 15 years old)... This machine out performs a $15,000 Miller Delta Weld that was really tricked out to MIG aluminum... (Large spool with a push-pull system).

One thing that works really nice is to spot weld the components with the MIG and then TIG ...... If it needs to be continuous weld on something really thin..
 

fordfan

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Sep 13, 2009
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Aluminum welding: MIG and TIG on .040" to .500" material.... Signs, fire truck boxes, ATV components, and of course...Bronco bumpers!!! All fabricated of aluminum!
 

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MeanGreen75
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
Messages
47
Loc.
southwest WI
Thanks for all the input. A few of you mentioned the material needing to be warm. My welder is in an unheated shop in Wisconsin, so the material has been 30 degrees or colder when starting, but even after trying to lay beads for awhile it doesnt seem to change. Would this cold weather be the reason possibly? It takes awhile to even lay a small clump on the material. I have tried making passes on .125 sheet scraps, and .125 1 1/2 square tubing, and some other random scraps of aluminum. Are there any good places to buy wire on the internet if i look for 4043 wire? I got my hobart 5356 at farm and fleet.
 

fordfan

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Sep 13, 2009
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3,543
Thanks for all the input. A few of you mentioned the material needing to be warm. My welder is in an unheated shop in Wisconsin, so the material has been 30 degrees or colder when starting, but even after trying to lay beads for awhile it doesnt seem to change. Would this cold weather be the reason possibly? It takes awhile to even lay a small clump on the material. I have tried making passes on .125 sheet scraps, and .125 1 1/2 square tubing, and some other random scraps of aluminum. Are there any good places to buy wire on the internet if i look for 4043 wire? I got my hobart 5356 at farm and fleet.

It sounds like your wire feed speed is really too slow. As for the cold temperatures: That is one of the inherent disadvantages of MIGing aluminum. If you are doing a bead..it always starts cold and ends hot. The temps in your shop would not cause the problems that you are having. I would try really increasing your wire speed... What is it set on now?
 

bad 68

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Jul 1, 2010
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Have you checked your polarity, it may be reversed. Set temp and speed acording to the chart on the welder. Most beginer problems involve burning through the aluminum and not getting it to melt.
 
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