Another front end question - C bushings

[kc15842]

I had the alignment checked, camber slightly off so I will use shims to correct. Toe was perfect, the caster is almost 0. I have 6.5 degree c bushings. I only took off one side so I can only assume they were installed properly on both sides. The bushings were old and one side was cracked. I'm puzzled as to why I am still at almost 0.
My lift is 2.5 - 3 not exactly sure as the hardware was part of the grab bag of parts when I bought the EB.
Any thoughts and who has the best c bushings? Will a larger correction c bushing correct the problem? How precise are the correction bushings?
Thanks

 

[DirtDonk]

Nope, more bushing offset isn't going to get you anywhere but another half a degree. And that's not worth the trouble.
As we've found out many times, quite a few (most?) EB's did not have the correct caster when they left the factory. Probably Ford's engineers and Dana's engineers not talking the same language? QC a bit lacking at the axle plant? Hard to say. But the results are consistent at least!

Unfortunately, yours sounds like it's even farther out of whack than normal. But not by much. With 3.5" lift and 7° bushings, I'm still just under 2° if I remember.
In cases like ours, the only way to get a reasonable caster reading without totally screwing your pinion angle, is to cut off the steering yokes (the "c") and re-orienting them.
You can still change the bushings and gain a half a degree, and add ball-joint eccentrics to get another 1.5°, but that still only puts you at about 2 degrees positive. And if you've got a Dana 30 front end, the eccentrics are out.

What year is yours? What axle? Manual or power steering?
I'd agree that it sounds like your bushings are correctly installed, but hey, stranger things have happened. It's a Bronco after all.

Good luck. Read up on some of the "C" rotations (they're yokes, but most here call them "C's", so try searching for that first. You might find it's not such a big deal as it sounds.

Paul

 

[kc15842]

Great info, thanks
1968, Dana 44 from a later model bronco, later model bronco power steering.
I'm going to go forward and get the camber to spec, toe in spec and try a set of 7 degree bushings. For the most part I am happy with how it handles, no pull, no tracking issues, the only issue is the wheel does not return on it's own.
I do have the ball joint eccentrics but the alignment mech said that's not the purpose of the eccentric. It was to set the pre-load of the knuckle.

 

[DirtDonk]

Well. hate to say it, but either he didn't understand what you meant, or he doesn't know what he's talking about. Fine tuning of camber/caster is EXACTLY what they are there for. Otherwise, why would you buy an "eccentric" one instead of using the concentric one that comes with the ball-joints?
Yes, the collar is to set the preload, and yes, the eccentric does the same thing. But the eccentric lets you use some of the movement you get while turning the collar down, to change the angle of the top of the knuckle. Since there is a little leeway (though not much in many cases), you can utilize that to tweak your alignment.
He knows all about eccentrics, so should have grasped that too. Probably just missed the point.

Just do it yourself sometime. Turn the collar the minimum you can, but so that it's all the way rearward, and lock it down.
With luck, the minimal amount you change the torque will not have any major discernible effect on the preload.

Paul

 

[kc15842]

Thanks, I'ver read that you can make small adjustment to both camber and caster adjusting the eccentric. Is that also true?
Thanks for the help.

 

[DirtDonk]

Yes. But you only have the full 1.5° (or whatever version you have) when it's fully in one direction. In other words, you can either get 1.5 of camber compensation, or 1.5 of caster compensation. Not both.
If you want to adjust the camber on one side about 1 degree, you'll have 1/2 degree or less of caster adjustment available. Probably less, but my geometry is rusty.

So if you want camber adjustment too, you're probably better off using this in combination with the shims you talked about.
Speaking of shims though... what year 44 is it? Do you have disc brakes? If so, are they Ford? Reason I ask is that the Ford disc brake spindles changed from 6 bolts to 5 bolts holding them on. This makes it a bigger hassle to find shims for, as they're not commonly available from all sources.

Do a quick search here to find a couple of threads from last year or so about sources for the 5-bolt shims.

Paul

 

[kc15842]

I have the 6 bolt D44. I ordered the shims last week so I should see them soon. So, I should be able to gain 1.5 degrees using the eccentric, maybe 1.5 degrees with new 7 degree bushings.
I've also read a bit on the 10 degree rubber radius arm bushings. What kind of change can I expect with these?
Thanks

 

[garberz]

...I've also read a bit on the 10 degree rubber radius arm bushings. What kind of change can I expect with these?
Thanks

Zero, they have no effect on caster. The 10 degree offset they provide, puts a preload on them when they are at ride height. They allow more flex by being in a neutral position 10 degrees dropped from ride height. So, they have a 10 degree head start, before the binding begins, compared to a stock bushing or urethane bushing.

 

[kc15842]

Thanks garberz