Another neewbie paint question

[hubdawg]

I have replaced two rear quarters and a front fender with new panels. The remaining panels and body have been stripped to bare metal(using 3m abrasive wheel for grinders-Awesome!). It's hard to see imperfections on the bare metal but I do have a few obvious spots. Do I do my fillers then use epoxy prime on everything even the e coat new panels. Do I use my seam sealer before the prime. I've never done any body work before but I've got an awesome set of tools. I'm having a guy shoot the final paint but he is tied up with another project right now and is out of town. I don't want a Maaco paint job but also not a show car finish. "I'm a peacock damit! you gotta let me fly!"

 

[AZ73]

Are you a TV repairman? (think Fast times). anyway, fillers first. Then prime. then sealer, then prime over the sealer. Prime over e-coat (after scuffing it)

 

[71massbronco]

It's important to have a layer of paint between the seam sealer and metal. That way you are less likely to get corrosion into the metal at the seams. I guess the paint/primer acts as a barrier. Over time the sealer will expand and contract (at a different rate than the paint. and if you are over the paint you won't get exposed metal. Also the metal won't interact with the chemicals in the sealer.

 

[Rustytruck]

If it were me I would sand it with 260 and epoxy prime everything. Then with one color the body damage will be visable again and metal will be sealed. Then I would use a 36 grit wheel to rough up the areas for body filler and fill with your choice of filler. after you sand out your filler I would epoxy prime all bare areas and start spraying your primer filler coats. Once the metal is sealed with epoxy primer stuf can sit and not rust between projects. You know how these little projects can snowball into months. All it takes is to have been hurt or get an illness between projects and you can come back to a rusty mess. All the rough work I try to do one pannel at a time get all the rough work done and epoxy primed and move on to the next pannel. I've never painted a car assembled. I've always had the doors, fenders and hood off so all the inner areas get painted and resealed.

 

[plumbdoctor]

Epoxy prime first, then fillers... high build primers, block sand, seal, color, clear

Most bondo fillers attract moisture, so if you sandwich it between the epoxyprimer and sealer, you lessen the chance for rust down the road

 

[KOBALTBLUE]

http://www.evercoat.com/faq.aspx

Q. Can Evercoat fillers be applied over bare metal? Can they be applied over paint?
A. Our fillers are designed to work over bare, properly prepared substrates such as: steel, aluminum, galvanized, stainless steel, fiberglass, and SMC. Some people prefer applying an epoxy primer over bare substrates to enhance corrosion protection. Our products don’t need to be applied over an epoxy for corrosion protection as long as the bare surface area is clean and no surface rust or contamination is present. However, some auto manufacturers do require body technicians to coat the bare metal surface with an epoxy before applying fillers. If you are performing warranty work, you should consult the manufacturer of the automobile for the recommended procedure. Fillers and putties will normally work OK over properly sanded (80-180 grit) cured OEM paint. However, with so many different types of aftermarket paint available (lacquer, enamel, urethane, water-based). We recommend that all paint be removed where filler is to be applied.

 

[plumbdoctor]

Evercoat products are better than most IMO

 

[hubdawg]

Thanks guys appreciate all the help. Any preferences to brand of epoxy primer

 

[allenfahey]

A great way to find small imperfections is to use an old t-shirt between your hand and the vehicle. Once you have all the body work done you have to finish the metal and filler with 180 or finer. Primers aren't made to fill deeper than a 180 scratch. They can and will come back later.

A good epoxy primer is PPG DP40LF. Many epoxy primers can be mixed as a sealer too. Take a look at the TDS (technical data sheet) it will give you any and all info on what you can do with that product. Do a google search for example "PPG DP40LF TDS" and you will find the TDS. If you use a primer that can be converted into a sealer that is less products to buy. You can also use an etching primer and a high build primer. I like them because they sand better with the finer grits like 400-600.

For the seam sealer. I recommend the 2 part seam sealers but they require a special expensive double barrel caulking gun. A very good seam sealer is Lord Fusor 800EZ. It uses a regular household caulking gun you use to do a bathtub. You never apply seam sealer to bare metal. There are a few that you can but for the 90% you can't. General rule of thumb is don't you can have corrosion problems later. There are many ways to apply the seam sealer. You can apply it over the primer after it has been at least sanded and scuffed with a red Scotchbrite. You can then seam seal it and then apply the sealer after the seam sealer has dried. You can also apply paint directly onto it. (if you use the 2 part seam sealer you should scuff it before applying anything on it) You can apply another coat of primer on it if you choose too. I've even had body men have me prep the vehicle. I then spray sealer and after it flashes off they come in the booth and apply the seam sealer. Make sure not to apply on bare metal

For the e-coat.... You should ask the painter how he wants you to handle that. Most of the paint lines out there you don't have to even sand the e-coat if you are applying sealer. The way I prep them is I sand the outside of the panel with 320 and scuff with a red scuff pad. Then seal both sides. For the underside like a hood, core support, rear body panel, ect. I just seal it then paint it, no sanding or scuffing. I rest easier knowing the out side panel has both a mechanical and chemical bond. I never have peeling problems for the underside of panels though. You can prime and sand the e-coat too. That's not wrong to do it, just not necessary. Ask your painter what he plans on doing. You are going to have to at least ask him what grit he wants you to finish the Bronco in.

 

[Brohawk75]

Make sure to use etch primer on bare metal. Don't let it sit bare metal long.

 

[KOBALTBLUE]

Make sure to use etch primer on bare metal. Don't let it sit bare metal long.

That is so wrong! You should know your products before posting!

IMPORTANT NOTES
• DO NOT USE ANY ACID BASE PRODUCTS SUCH AS SELF ETCHING PRIMERS, ETC. UNDER THE KD3000 SERIES DTS SURFACER/SEALERS. THIS WILL ALMOST CERTAINLY CAUSE AN ADHESION PROBLEM.
• IF YOU FIND IT NECESSARY TO USE A METAL CONDITIONER TO REMOVE RUST, ETC., BE SURE TO THOROUGHLY CLEAN AND NEUTRALIZE THE TREATED AREA FOLLOWING THE CONDITIONER MANUFACTURERS RECOMMENDATIONS, THEN USING OUR KC20 POST SANDING CLEANER WITH A MAROON SCUFF PAD TO INSURE ALL ACID RESIDUE HAS BEEN REMOVED BEFORE PRIMING. IF NOT, THIS WILL ALMOST CERTAINLY CAUSE AN ADHESION PROBLEM
• IN CUSTOM PAINTING, IT IS NOT UNCOMMON TO EXPERIENCE POLYESTER STAINING FROM BOTH BODY FILLERS, GLAZING PUTTIES, AND FIBERGLASS RESINS . THE KD3000 SERIES DTS SURFACER/SEALER IS DESIGNED TO PREVENT THIS STAINING PROBLEM AS LONG AS THE FILLERS/PUTTIES ARE MIXED AND APPLIED PROPERLY, AND THE AFTER SANDING MILLAGE REMAINS AT LEAST 2 MILS.

If you DONT KNOW what products your using for a finish dont just guess on stuff! And I didnt use the caps on thats the way its in the data tech sheet that ANYONE doing finish work should be reading!

 

[allenfahey]

That is so wrong! You should know your products before posting!

IMPORTANT NOTES
• DO NOT USE ANY ACID BASE PRODUCTS SUCH AS SELF ETCHING PRIMERS, ETC. UNDER THE KD3000 SERIES DTS SURFACER/SEALERS. THIS WILL ALMOST CERTAINLY CAUSE AN ADHESION PROBLEM.
• IF YOU FIND IT NECESSARY TO USE A METAL CONDITIONER TO REMOVE RUST, ETC., BE SURE TO THOROUGHLY CLEAN AND NEUTRALIZE THE TREATED AREA FOLLOWING THE CONDITIONER MANUFACTURERS RECOMMENDATIONS, THEN USING OUR KC20 POST SANDING CLEANER WITH A MAROON SCUFF PAD TO INSURE ALL ACID RESIDUE HAS BEEN REMOVED BEFORE PRIMING. IF NOT, THIS WILL ALMOST CERTAINLY CAUSE AN ADHESION PROBLEM
• IN CUSTOM PAINTING, IT IS NOT UNCOMMON TO EXPERIENCE POLYESTER STAINING FROM BOTH BODY FILLERS, GLAZING PUTTIES, AND FIBERGLASS RESINS . THE KD3000 SERIES DTS SURFACER/SEALER IS DESIGNED TO PREVENT THIS STAINING PROBLEM AS LONG AS THE FILLERS/PUTTIES ARE MIXED AND APPLIED PROPERLY, AND THE AFTER SANDING MILLAGE REMAINS AT LEAST 2 MILS.

If you DONT KNOW what products your using for a finish dont just guess on stuff! And I didnt use the caps on thats the way its in the data tech sheet that ANYONE doing finish work should be reading!

Why is Brohawk75 wrong? He didn't mention anything about using HOK products. It is true you should read the TDS for the product you are using but he didn't mention what product to use. For best corrosion protection etching does goes on before 2K primer in Spies, Dupont, PPG, Glasurit, Sherwin Williams, ICI, Standox, ect. Those are all products I've used daily for years at a time. Not all etching products are acid based either. The good ones are acid based but not all are.

 

[bad 68]

Just remember that when you apply epoxy primer over the bare metal you will have to apply primer surfacer within within the amount of time stated by the product manufaturer of it will have to be scuffed. Just one more step so if the bronco is sitting where it won't surface rust I would wait. On the other hand if your in a moist climate it is easier red scuff the Expoxy than sand rust back off the panels.

 

[Rustytruck]

Remember for the most part someone Prepping / painting a Bronco at home needs as much protection between start and finish of their project as they can get. They are not professionals that will be working on their paint bodywork project in a timely mannor to follow the manufactures recoat spec's. They need to epoxy seal to prevent rust for the next few months or even years. They will always have to sand the epoxy pimer before moving on to other steps. Yea a pro can grind a body slap on some filler, rough sand and add epoxy primer and an hour later slap on a few coats of filler primer. The next day get a team together and sand out the body and by friday spray a sealer coat and start laying on color. That doesn't happen at home in the driveway or garage after youv'e worked all day. I have alot of respect for you pros who do it all day but the rules dont always apply the same in the back yard world.

 

[allenfahey]

Remember for the most part someone Prepping / painting a Bronco at home needs as much protection between start and finish of their project as they can get. They are not professionals that will be working on their paint bodywork project in a timely mannor to follow the manufactures recoat spec's. They need to epoxy seal to prevent rust for the next few months or even years. They will always have to sand the epoxy pimer before moving on to other steps. Yea a pro can grind a body slap on some filler, rough sand and add epoxy primer and an hour later slap on a few coats of filler primer. The next day get a team together and sand out the body and by friday spray a sealer coat and start laying on color. That doesn't happen at home in the driveway or garage after youv'e worked all day. I have alot of respect for you pros who do it all day but the rules dont always apply the same in the back yard world.

Rustytruck, You make it sound so easy!! That is a good point and I do try to give advise on the forum in that perspective. Last summer I got a 73 VW Bug as a side job that I didn't really want to do. Last thing I want to see some days is another vehicle! The owner stripped it to bare metal and we brought it to my house. It sat in the garage for 13 months or so in bare metal. I coated it with Dupont 5717S which is the same stuff as POR-15's Metal Ready. I saturated a rag and wiped it down and kept it wet for 10 minutes and let it dry on there. It didn't flash rust at all but was kept in the garage and never stored outside. If a guy did strip his Bronco to bare metal he could do the same thing I did and not worry about it rusting. There are many different ways to do paint work, you just need to figure out which way is easiest/cheapest for you.