Anti freeze

[Jakedog]

Im getting ready to flush my aluminium radiator and I'm not sure what mix of anitifreeze I should use. 50-50, 70-30, etc? I live in an area that gets pretty hot in summer. Any advice would help. Thanks.

 

[ransil]

50-50 ..............

 

[Broncobowsher]

I've switched to the blue pre-mix long life stuff. Never any question of water quality either (I know of some issues using distilled water where it attacks metals, it may not have contaminates but it isn't inert either)

 

[Slowleak]

Coincidentally, I just flushed my system and have a new radiator coming today. I spent a few hours researching antifreeze mixtures yesterday. Everything I found indicates that more water is better. It creates a lower viscosity mix, better heat transfer, and still maintains the anti-corrosive properties.

I'm in the south, and the Bronco is garaged, so I don't have to worry about freezing temps too much. I also have A/C so I am more concerned about overheating. I'm going with a 25/75 antifreeze/water mix and a bottle of Water Wetter.

I'll clean out out the whole system, add one gallon antifreeze, one bottle of Water Wetter, and 3 gallons of distilled water. That will give me the 16 quarts total that I need plus a little for the overflow tank.

Here's an interesting read about the mixture.
http://www.superstreetonline.com/how-to/engine/0703-turp-cooling-system-additives/

https://hellafunctional.com/?p=629

 

[ntsqd]

If you could get truly pure water (distilled is FAR from being that) you would find it to be nearly as corrosive as salt water. Pure water is not a benign substance, not even close. Why else would it have all of those trace minerals in it?

Steam turbine power generating stations do a LOT of work to achieve a specific chemistry in the water used to make steam. It is not pure water, but they take it pretty close to that before adding back in specific chemicals to get to a target pH and mineral content. I've no idea what those targets are, but I could likely find out roughly what they are.

I've been thinking for a while that using large containers of "drinking water" might be better in a cooling system than using distilled water. The pre-mixed stuff always seemed to me like a way to extract more $$ from the consumer, but maybe not - they might have something there. They'd at least have some control over what was in the water before mixing it with the coolant.

 

[SHX669]

I have "hard water " i can't wash my rigs or house windows without leaving white spots on everything { a well so no chlorine or fluoride - but maybe a lot of pesticides and etc- LOL } so i use distilled water . I don't want that " hard stuff "sitting in my radiator fins and I'm not sure how inert that stuff is when mixed with antifreeze.
There are different types and qualities of " purified and distilled " water so that could lead to varying results.

 

[blubuckaroo]

I always follow the vehicle manufacturer recommendation. Many newer cars require specific water, but my Bronco's book has nothing in it about requiring distilled, drinking, purified, or any other specific water.

Come to think of it, I've never seen water for sale in any auto part store.

Certainly, there are places in this country with extremely hard water where something else should be used, but in most cases a garden hose is fine.

 

[Slowleak]

I have always used tap water too but I see what it does to my coffeemaker and plumbing fixtures. They are all clogged with mineral deposits. Coffeemaker is a year old and I had to overhaul it. I'm going to try distilled water since I just flushed everything out.

 

[Ovalis]

I would highly recommend using distilled water when using any aluminum components. The minerals in normal water will wreak havoc on aluminum. The water pump impeller & housing on my dirt bike were practically dissolved when I opened it up once. Upon reading the manual, they said specifically to use distilled water only for the cooling system.

 

[ntsqd]

I would say that there are few places where a garden hose is fine. Ours is hard water, but far less hard than other places I've been, yet it would always leave rust colored sludge in the cooling system. After switching to distilled 10+ years ago that quit happening.

Auto parts stores can't compete on the price of distilled, so why should they carry it? Early-on I just figured the pre-mixed coolant was their way past that.

 

[sykanr0ng]

If you could get truly pure water (distilled is FAR from being that) you would find it to be nearly as corrosive as salt water. Pure water is not a benign substance, not even close. Why else would it have all of those trace minerals in it?

Steam turbine power generating stations do a LOT of work to achieve a specific chemistry in the water used to make steam. It is not pure water, but they take it pretty close to that before adding back in specific chemicals to get to a target pH and mineral content. I've no idea what those targets are, but I could likely find out roughly what they are.

I've been thinking for a while that using large containers of "drinking water" might be better in a cooling system than using distilled water. The pre-mixed stuff always seemed to me like a way to extract more $$ from the consumer, but maybe not - they might have something there. They'd at least have some control over what was in the water before mixing it with the coolant.

Several times that 'drinking water' has turned out to be nothing but city tap water in a fancy container.

Better to use distilled water.
Add good anti-freeze and an additive such as Redline Water Wetter which is made for rust and corrosion protection as well as improving cooling.

 

[ntsqd]

Which is why the pre-mixed coolant is looking more and more attractive. I am not convinced that distilled is the ideal water to be using for coolant. It is the best easily available water to use for coolant, but perhaps not THE best. I would hope that whomever makes up the pre-mixed has good control over the quality of the water used. In this age that might be expecting too much, its probably Chinese water.....

 

[sykanr0ng]

My problem with the pre-mixed coolants is so many of that type of product are made to a price point for convenience store sales which generally means every corner that can be cut will be cut.

Made for sale to people that are having problems with their cooling system to limp home and be flushed and replaced when repairs are done, so long term use and quality are not part of the plan.


Maybe it's my OCD tendencies but I would rather start with the purest water I can get (usually steam distilled) and mix in the best antifreeze and additive I can find.

If I mess up I know who to blame, rather than cursing some nameless, faceless 10 cent an hour worker on the other side of the planet.

 

[jagbucket]

I used to be a 50-50 advocate also as its easier to add/replace but after a visit to the local independent radiator shop i have changed thoughts on it. They seem to have a crusade on to convert people to a 70/30 percent or use a hydrometer to check and only put in what the lowest temp expected plus i add at lest 10 degrees. it will take 30 minutes to get out of there once you admit to the 50/50 belief unfortunately all i retained is that less is better in this case.

 

[Kirk K]

What about waterless coolant? https://www.evanscoolant.com

 

[SteveL]

For years when my 72 was a dd sitting in lots of la traffic I just ran water from the hose, 1 bottle of water wetter and no antifreeze. Never had a problem and it ran nice and cool. Then when I wasn't using it as a dd but was driving up to the mountains here and there I added antifreeze. My Temps went up a little but not much.

 

[Slowleak]

I was looking into Evans Coolant until I saw the price. It's around $45/gallon and you also have to use the prep fluid. It would cost well over $200 to switch to it. As soon as I did I would pop a hose and spew that stuff all over the road.......

 

[ntsqd]

The problem with distilled water is that it has corrosive properties all by itself. It is not the benign substance that most seem to think it is. Those minerals that were removed by the distillation process were there because the water chemically bonded with them strongly enough to remove them from where ever they were when the water flowed over them. Now that those minerals are gone, those bonds are broken and the water molecules are looking for something else to bond with. Like Aluminum. Or iron. Or copper. Or lead. Or anything else it can 'pry' loose.

With the wrong mineral content water can be more corrosive than distilled, that's a given. But water with the right mineral content will be much less corrosive than distilled, to the point of possibly being completely inert. With the right content those broken bonds don't exist and the minerals involved aren't themselves looking for something else to bond with (other forms of corrosion). This will be much more benign than "pure" water and would be a better starting point in blending together the most ideal coolant. The problem is where to get this water. Which is what lead me to ponder using "drinking water" instead of distilled water or possibly the pre-mixed coolant. In my part of the world there is a premium charged for the pre-mixed coolant. It costs a little more per gallon than straight coolant. Given that the pre-mixed that I see comes from name brands I would expect them to have some degree of control over the chemistry of the water that they use.

Redline's pre-mixed talks about using "purified, deionized water": http://www.redlineoil-europe.com/co...duct=SuperCool_Coolant_with_WaterWetter_00089
Motorcraft's pre-mix uses "purified" water, what ever that is. https://www.fordparts.com/Products/Chemicals-EngineProducts-Coolants.aspx
Deionized water would be better than distilled water, they are not the same thing.
John Deere's pre-mix coolant says "de-mineralized", which is getting more to the point:
http://www.greenpartstore.com/John-Deere-Cool-Gard-II-Pre-Mix-Coolant-TY26575-TY26576.html

I did see mention in one of the various mfg pages I've looked at today that mentioned the Errosive aspect of particles suspended in tap water being particularly hard on water pump shaft seals. Presumably any processed water would have reduced or eliminated those particles.

Evanscool looks good for a street rod. I'd leave it on the street unless willing to re-engineer all of the coolant system plumbing to be much more robust as a leak off-road could be an extreme problem.

 

[sykanr0ng]

Water has been referred to as 'the universal solvent'.

I'm not saying that distilled water is in any way an inert substance, simply that it is far better to mix with antifreeze than tap water.
The tap water fittings in the places I have lived have been both corroded and crusty with hard water (aka mineral) deposits.

Back when radiator shops were common they did great business removing those minerals from radiators with acid (when they weren't soldering holes).

 

[ntsqd]

And all I'm saying is that distilled may not be the best water to use either.