anyone using RuffStuffs offet tierod steering?

[mofoco1]

Please post pics and your thoughts. thanks, I was going to order The clydesdale,but it wont fit!!!!!!!!!

 

[DirtDonk]

Back to the top fer ya.
But curious why the Clydesdale won't fit? Thought we had them for just about any combination so far. But apparently not for all!

Got a link to the offset steering you're talking about? Not always easy to find stuff on their site, so might help get us there quicker.

Thanks

Paul

 

[sykanr0ng]

Back to the top fer ya.
But curious why the Clydesdale won't fit? Thought we had them for just about any combination so far. But apparently not for all!

Got a link to the offset steering you're talking about? Not always easy to find stuff on their site, so might help get us there quicker.

Thanks

Paul

The tie rod ends are offset from centerline, presumably to reach around diff covers.
Here:

http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/TREOFFK.html

 

[DirtDonk]

Oh yeah, seen those. Totally forgot about them.
Thanks for the links and pics.

Not always needed on EB's, but that extra clearance is nice and handy when using a really beefy and thick diff cover that is not clearanced for the larger diameter rods.
The downside is that you need to come up with a full crossover steering setup where the draglink mounts to the knuckle in some way. That or weld on a strap/tab/thingy to accept the draglink end on the tie-rod itself.

Flat top knuckles and high-steer arms are slick and readily available of course. Not sure of any clearance issues that EB front ends might have, but I think different high-steer setups have been discussed here before. Maybe someone rocking that kind of setup will see your question and chime in with their experiences.

Is clearance for a diff cover your issue? Is that what the Clydesdale's problem was in your case?

Paul

 

[AZ73]

I'm running the Ruff Stuff 1 ton GM setup. Set up as under mount and have 3/4 inch clearance to stock diff cover at full turn. Running 17 inch wheels. If set up over mount you gain about another 1/4 to 1/2 inch to cover. Not sure if your diff cover or your 15 inch slots are the problem but happy to throw on my old 15s and see if they clear. From your picture it could be either problem but I think over mounting would solve the wheel issue.

http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/YLINK.html

http://classicbroncos.com/photos/showphoto.php/photo/32972/ppuser/7176

 

[mofoco1]

The cover is definitely an issue as it is so big, it was a custom casting made for me(nothing touches after I spaced the swaybar though, but that also meant it goes forward and closer to the tie rod, not a problem with stock one would never fit with the Clydesdale in retrospect). I figured the RuffStuff offset tierod would cover all my issues. Well I consulted with them and found out that no they would not work for the EB. if you need to use the passenger-side end to also mount a saddle for a draglink. Apparently the saddle and draglink will cause an adverse rotation of the offset ends that would not be desirable. The problem with the Clydesdales is they are soooo big that you need either big wheels or spaced out wheels, neither of which I want for my build. I wanted period slots and in 15"size that would stay under the Luber and run 33"x 10.5" mudders without rubbing and able to wheel as well as be a comfortable daily driver. lots to ask, if you are unwilling to compromise. I ended up with the RS 1 ton TRU kit. If my measurements are correct they will barely clear but should. I would love pics of your set though AZ73.

 

[AZ73]

Sorry for the delay. It was off for painting so I had to put it back on to take the pics. Measures 1.5" centered to cover, and 0.5"-.75" at full turn left or right. There's lots of space to my wheels BUT I'm running 17x9" Methods with 4.5" backspace. Offset is -12 (about 1/2 inch) and that will make a difference with the fit. I don't know what the offset is on a stock wheel, but if it's similar, my wheel edge would stick out about 1/2 further outside from the tie rod than stock, and 1 inch further forward than stock. If you want, I can mount a stock ford truck 15 inch wheel (that's all I have, don't have original wheels) and see how it looks to the tie rod. Other issue is bottom of my tie rod connection point on my knuckle is 17.25" from the ground. The top is 18". The TOP of the center link is 17" meaning is sits .25" below. Thus flipping it over and running a top mount you can estimate the now BOTTOM of the center link will sit .25" above the top of the knuckle mounting point. Thus on a top mount the bottom of the center link will be 1.25" above the top of the center link on a bottom mount. You can run a string and look at your D44 cover and see if you have more space with a top mount.

 

[76Bronco302]

What is required to run the ruff stuff tre setup? I have heim joint steering. Ow and the knuckles have been drilled out to 3/4" I believe. Are my knuckles still useful or do I need new ones. Also they need to be reamed correct?

 

[AZ73]

What is required to run the ruff stuff tre setup? I have heim joint steering. Ow and the knuckles have been drilled out to 3/4" I believe. Are my knuckles still useful or do I need new ones. Also they need to be reamed correct?

I switched from a 3/4" hole heim set-up. You can ream them using this tool:

http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/REAM.html

But I don't know what the ending hole is so best to ask them if a 3/4 hole to start will work.

I did this set-up instead because I have the drill bits, but not the reamer. I drilled my 3/4" holes to 7/8" and used these inserts (not welded):

http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/INSSTEER.html

The Pitman Arm needs to be drilled out 1" and have this insert TIG welded in:

http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/DLINSERT.html

Measuring is KEY. They send you 2 54" DOM and you cut them to size. The tube adapters that get welded into the DOM are 1.25" each so whatever side you want, subtract 2.5" and cut your DOM to that size. For my Bronco I set the tires so the center distance of the front tires was the same distance in the front and back (can't recall but I think it was like 61.5 inches for my 35's). That means the tires are parallel. I put the tie rods in and wanted 1" of thread showing on both sides for adjustments, and then account for the jam nuts (can't recall their width - 7/8"?) but the total distance (DOM and tube adapters) came out to 38" so the DOM was cut to 35.5". Drag link was 28" so it was cut to 25.5. They fit perfect, but measure yours.

I also added "The Cure" to help limit rotation of center and drag link. It turns out it only limits the rotation of the drag link TO the center link. That helps somewhat the rotation of the center link at the ball joints. I saw a video where a Jeep had installed them on the Ball joints too, but Ruff Stuff they break there on a Y link set-up so they don't recommend except for the drag link.

http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/R1768.html

Don't forget to put "Bronco" in the coupon box. Worth 10%.

 

[76Bronco302]

AZ73 great info. Thank you very much

 

[SavageBurro]

AZ73,
Curious why u ditched the heim for the ruff stuff tie rod setup? Also, how are you liking it? I've been kicking around several different setups. Thx!

 

[AZ73]

AZ73,
Curious why u ditched the heim for the ruff stuff tie rod setup? Also, how are you liking it? I've been kicking around several different setups. Thx!

When I started this build (many many moons ago) I bought a heim set-up. I read many stories of death wabble and wandering steering so I wanted to tighten things up as much as possible. Over time as I've read more and more posts, I came to realize Heims aren't DOT approved for many states, and I started to worry if the actual Heim I was using was going to be strong enough to support my decision to upgrade to 35's. Heims are rated for strength, and while most automotive ones start around 10,000 lbs and go up to 30,000 which shouldn't be a problem, I wasn't entirely sure what the ones that came in my kit were rated at. So I started looking to upgrade them to a known number, but then I read you can't lube them and they wear out faster than ball joints. About that time I read a post from someone who had the Ruff Stuff 1 ton system put on, and it solved their wabble problem (well, that and getting a drop bracket so their track bar lined up). So I figured that will solve my worries about wabble, and the parts are readily available should I be out and have a problem. Plus I don't have to worry about being DOT approved.

I wish I could tell you how it drives, but I haven't driven on them. The body's just getting ready for paint so it's still going to be a few months. The old, installed but never used Heim system purchased from one of the vendors here will go up for sale as soon as I get around to posting it.

 

[SavageBurro]

Thank you.... and sorry to hijack the thread.

 

[mofoco1]

AZ73 Great info. And SB no hijacking worries? looking at your pics it looks like you left a few of thread on all attachment points. I know the adapter are weld in and they are thru threaded, but are not the length of the a fully threaded tie rod. I was am going to take your measurements and mock mine up. I was thinking I would make the links almost as long as them, maybe longer, that would allow fully thread tie rods on. Then give them only a .5" back up on the thread at all points. My thinking is that the further in the stronger the joint, as there is less of the tie rod and more link. Not sure if that makes sense. Which knuckles and brakes are you using as well as steering box and is it inside or outside of the frame, also which pitman arm, as that also may dictate differences as not all set ups are the same. I Am using the 79 Bronco parts so I don't have to ream from what I am being told, but may have different sizing , although I have never had a problem using them in the past. PS box is stock Eb same with pitman arm( it may have to get reamed). Part of my issueson my build stemmed, in that I did not want much lift, in fact I wanted the bare minimum, while allowing for discs, old skool slots, tucked 33"x10.5" Mudders, larger diff cover and Stock swaybar set-up and ability someday to go coilovers f/r on a Luber! Lots to ask for and one item can throw off all the rest if not addressed from the beginning.

 

[AZ73]

The threads are about 5 inches long and go way past the threaded end and into the DOM. I left 1 inch of thread (or 3/4, can't remember) when I measured on each tie rod end for plenty of adjustment room. In the pix I just temporally screwed them part way in just to take the pix which probably explains the 1/4 inch difference between full right and left turn. Use the 1/2 inch to cover which is was it was when I installed it all the way before removing for paint.

3/4 or 1 inch on both sides might be too much for cosmetic reasons, but it's easier to be shorter with extra room, than longer and not be able to toe in. I wouldn't worry about the strength of the tie rods. The threaded end is .9 inches. That's almost 4 times thicker than the walls of the DOM and thicker than other parts of the tie rod. That means it's also 4 times thicker than your weld used to weld the threaded end on. But if you're measuring on an alignment machine you can make your tube longer.


I've noticed in some pictures of other vehicles with this set-up, different tie rods and high angle rods are used, so just use my measurements as a reference. The high angle rod end RS sent me seems to me much longer than the one in their picture.

Knuckles are stock D44s that came with the truck. The brakes are from Tom's. I'm not sure what set-up they use. I didn't install dust covers as with 35's I wanted them to have lots of room to cool, and I didn't want mud to get caked up between the rotor and cover.

 

[mofoco1]

So I was looking at the build thread. PS box is custom EB shortened sector shaft, stock pitman? from an F150 or BB? What about the knuckles? And yes good advise just using your measurements as a starting point. I Have for years used solid stock or had .5 " walled tubing tapped for my joints,have to date never used weld in bungs and though proven by much harder wheelers than I, it's just my overbuild mentally talking

 

[AZ73]

Sorry, added the knuckles on the previous comment AFTER you read it. It's the stock knuckles for the 73 D44. The steering is a custom build because I'm a lunatic. I wanted to upgrade the set-up to support 35's and my 73 had the old "can" pump. I also wanted 3.5 turns (yes, crazy at highway speeds, but I'm going with a 15 inch steering wheel, not a 12 inch) with a particular torsion "feel". It wasn't necessarily designed to be a heavy duty rock crawler. But to get what I wanted, I had to go custom. Frankly, it wasn't much more than the set-ups the vendors sell. Both AGR and Ruff Stuff said the stock pitman arm would be fine with the welded insert. Because I'm only running 2.5 inch lift, no drop arm was needed, and you can see how parallel the track bar is with the drop mount. After drilling out the pitman arm the "walls" were the same thickness of the DOM - 1/4 inch. welding in the inset made it closer to 1/2 inch.

 

[mofoco1]

Believe me I understand doing it just because you want it( that's my entire build!)No dropdown tracbar bracket on mine.

 

[mofoco1]

Dirtdonk I was at the shop a couple of weeks ago because I wanted to see the Clydesdales for myself. they don't disappoint in shear size alone. They would not work as size of the ends would not allow me to run the wheels I wanted as I am doing a luber and have 33"x10.5x15 and want to stay under the wheel wells. wheel spacer would allow me to run the CDs but the wheel/tire combo would make me rub on the rear fenders. I really wanted them to work

 

[DirtDonk]

Glad you had a chance to stop by and get a hands-on check of them. Beats the heck out of shipping that heavy beast only to find out they won't fit!

I'm totally with the whole keeping in tucked in approach. It does leave some areas where we have to go with Plan-B of course, but it's a good approach on EB's. I absolutely hate the look of a LUBR with tires sticking out past the fenders!

Can't wait to see yours all done up and ready to roll.

Paul