Hello, Folks, I'm new to this and am hoping someone out there knows a little more than the msd techs. I just installed the Atomic EFI system, returnless fuel pump, no timing. 302 crate roller, mild cam, trickflow heads. Runs great with just a holley 600. The holley has saved me twice already. Ok, msd installed. fire it up cold jets to 2000 2400 rpm, IAC 110, all not good, idle never comes down to 800 rpm when warmed up, really never comes down at all. When hot I try to adjust blade rear to front get it down to about 1100 1200 rpm. IAC goes up to 135, not good. Try to get blades adjust to lower idle below 1000, stall. When starting I've tried blade adjustment 1 turn, 1 1/2, & 2 turns to start it, all with the same results. After saying all that. I have learned far too much about MSD and EFI that I ever wanted to know. Good thing I have the mech fuel pump still there and the holley in my back pocket. I've popped it on twice now for a rescue. A cup of gas down the throat and she fires right up and drive home. Been trying to get this to run right for 2 weeks. Any Help out there, How about Wildhorses. ....jim 69bronco
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atomic efi problems
- Thread starter jzpdx
- Start date
carter2772
Bronco Guru
I dont have help, just watching as I am very curious about this system. The only piece of input I may have about the idling, is that I have read it may take a while for it to learn before the idle drops down 1k rpm... Not sure how true that is, just something I thought I read.
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Well jz, sorry about my post in that other thread! I see that you started your own already.
I think we even matched titles!
So anyway, why go returnless? Isn't a return type fuel system less problematic for this type of setup, or did you match it up in their chart to be ok?
Second, what is the condition of your chassis wiring harness? Is it the original? Is '69 the year?
What type of charging system?
How many grounds? Did you add more to the engine?
New battery and starter cables?
You may already have been over all this, but I'm just catching up, so bear with all the questions.
Paul
I think we even matched titles!
So anyway, why go returnless? Isn't a return type fuel system less problematic for this type of setup, or did you match it up in their chart to be ok?
Second, what is the condition of your chassis wiring harness? Is it the original? Is '69 the year?
What type of charging system?
How many grounds? Did you add more to the engine?
New battery and starter cables?
You may already have been over all this, but I'm just catching up, so bear with all the questions.
Paul
Guru, I'm all over the web site hunting for answers. Yes old wiring, every thing else is all new alt, reg, bat, blaster 2 coil, older ready to run msd coil, motor 1000k, 1969 uncut, 3550 NV, sweet rig, everything grounded to the hilt and all new. Went returnless because I wanted to start off slow. The fuel pump is just even with the bottom of the resv tank bout 8" away. Need to purchase a new efi main tank. Not using main, condition suspect. Fuel pressure 45 psi avg. Everything points to vacuum leak. Poured some lite oil around intake with no result. What,s interesting, I can put the holley on there and she runs like its never been touched, so vacuum leaks are a question. If there is a vacuum leak it may be coming from the efi. To drop idle I need to close blades instead of opening. Looks like a vacuum leak. IAC at start about 100, once adjusted idle down about 135 and climbing. oh well, I'll be back on the phone with msd on Monday. I understand atomic works or not, reading their forum is kind of scary.........jim
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Yeah, I haven't been on their forums yet, but it should be interesting to say the least!
Sounds like the vacuum leak would only be between the throttle body and the intake then, like you said.
Instead of oil, I would say that carb cleaner or even water would be the better choice. Just easier to use, and easier to get sucked into the leak and change the idle.
Oil would block the leak better, but I'm not sure if that's an advantage or a disadvantage.
If the paint is all new though, forget the carb cleaner and go straight to water in a spray bottle. Or at the least use Break Cleaner instead. It works the same but evaporates quicker before it can attack the new paint.
If it's older paint, then head on in with the spray can of carb cleaner.
You're looking for any change at all in the idle speed/quality. Faster or slower doesn't matter. If it changes you've found a leak.
It would be odd for the TBI setup to not match a standard 4bbl manifold, but it wouldn't be the first time things like this have happened. Slight variations in shape of the mounting surface can do weird things.
Anyway, even if it's not a problem, it's worth the 30 seconds of extra work to confirm it.
When you say grounded to the hilt, what all have you done?
I believe you. I'm just curious to know, in case I can see/detect something that you might have missed. Or not.
But again, worth checking. I'm guessing you and MSD have been over this stuff already, but maybe some fresh eyes will help.
Good luck.
Paul
Sounds like the vacuum leak would only be between the throttle body and the intake then, like you said.
Instead of oil, I would say that carb cleaner or even water would be the better choice. Just easier to use, and easier to get sucked into the leak and change the idle.
Oil would block the leak better, but I'm not sure if that's an advantage or a disadvantage.
If the paint is all new though, forget the carb cleaner and go straight to water in a spray bottle. Or at the least use Break Cleaner instead. It works the same but evaporates quicker before it can attack the new paint.
If it's older paint, then head on in with the spray can of carb cleaner.
You're looking for any change at all in the idle speed/quality. Faster or slower doesn't matter. If it changes you've found a leak.
It would be odd for the TBI setup to not match a standard 4bbl manifold, but it wouldn't be the first time things like this have happened. Slight variations in shape of the mounting surface can do weird things.
Anyway, even if it's not a problem, it's worth the 30 seconds of extra work to confirm it.
When you say grounded to the hilt, what all have you done?
I believe you. I'm just curious to know, in case I can see/detect something that you might have missed. Or not.
But again, worth checking. I'm guessing you and MSD have been over this stuff already, but maybe some fresh eyes will help.
Good luck.
Paul
Paul, interesting, I put 2 carb gaskets on and it changed, idle came down and I was able to drive it. still IAC too high 75 then climbed to 115. Not as bad. Tried to gas it a little, heard a whistling noise as it fell on it face. Still couldn't tune it but getting closer. Maybe closer to other problems. I really think MSD should show more realistic videos. I'm having trouble with guys bolting it on and driving away. So far it's not as advertised......thanks so much for your interest, bye the does WH install, I'm in Portland I think your in Stockton Ca........jim
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Hey, an improvement! Good to see, even if it's not up to snuff yet.
Nope, we don't do installs. However, that video could just as well come from us, as Johnny installed one on his '71 in the back shop last year. Bolted right on and started right up.
Only thing he had to do that would have been considered not bolt-n-go was he did have to fiddle with some of the initial settings a few times over about a week. Actually about 3 or 4 days of actually working on it in his spare time, but over a period of a week.
Once it got dialed-in, it has been running like gangbusters ever since. He hasn't touched a screw or bolt or electrical connection in many moons. It's not a daily driver unfortunately, but it still gets driven a bit between home and work and no problems.
In fact though, that's almost worse than being a DD. But it starts right up every time I'm pretty sure. At least he had no negatives to report after the initial couple of days of wondering.
I'll go check out their video though. Just to see what they're showing.
In the meantime, it sounds like some more concentrated vacuum leak searching could be in order with a "controllable substance" like a can of spray cleaner. Now that you've seen a change with the new gaskets, it might be worth another shot.
Paul
Nope, we don't do installs. However, that video could just as well come from us, as Johnny installed one on his '71 in the back shop last year. Bolted right on and started right up.
Only thing he had to do that would have been considered not bolt-n-go was he did have to fiddle with some of the initial settings a few times over about a week. Actually about 3 or 4 days of actually working on it in his spare time, but over a period of a week.
Once it got dialed-in, it has been running like gangbusters ever since. He hasn't touched a screw or bolt or electrical connection in many moons. It's not a daily driver unfortunately, but it still gets driven a bit between home and work and no problems.
In fact though, that's almost worse than being a DD. But it starts right up every time I'm pretty sure. At least he had no negatives to report after the initial couple of days of wondering.
I'll go check out their video though. Just to see what they're showing.
In the meantime, it sounds like some more concentrated vacuum leak searching could be in order with a "controllable substance" like a can of spray cleaner. Now that you've seen a change with the new gaskets, it might be worth another shot.
Paul
i'm looking into purchasing an aftermarket efi system and have downloaded a couple of the install instructions to help make up my mind on which one to purchase (so by no means no expert) and noticed msd has updated their instructions lately. donk seems to be leaning toward a vacuum leak, are all the vacuum ports plugged or in use and the one thing I noticed (or at least I think I noticed that was different) was a boost reference port that needs to be plugged on the underside close to IAC. U can download the most recent install instructions on the atomic site and look at page 5 & 6. Page 6 wasn't there a couple of weeks ago.
jon, don't use me as an example, in my frustration. I feel its a good product, most people are going to it, but if you don't have a brand new, or rebuilt engine the EFI system will let you know whats wrong. Carbs will run wilt little vacuum leaks but not EFI. To answer your question, all the vacuum ports are plugged. You have to supply your fittings. The vidios are a perfect world and don't show everything. The instructions are even worse.........jim
Outlaw Bronco
Jr. Member
Just wondering if you can unplug the IAC to see if it would idle better?
Some EFI setups i have tuned with, suggest getting the idle tune close before activating the IAC control's. It's real job is to just correct small changes in the idle RPM and not to fully control the idle of the engine.
I haven't used the Atomic setup yet and know nothing about it, just thinking it may be a option to see a result, good or bad!
Some EFI setups i have tuned with, suggest getting the idle tune close before activating the IAC control's. It's real job is to just correct small changes in the idle RPM and not to fully control the idle of the engine.
I haven't used the Atomic setup yet and know nothing about it, just thinking it may be a option to see a result, good or bad!
Keep in mind I have zero experience with Atomic either.
What I do find interesting is that when you close the throttle blades the IAC counts increase. It would seem to me that it's because the ECM is commanding the higher idle speed for some reason.
Perhaps it defaults to a higher speed if a sensor is out of range?
Ford EFI will do this for a number of different reasons, like TPS out of range. There are also various idle speed adders that are built in to the software. For instance, cold start up adds 200 rpm to the base idle speed for a certain amount of time, then will stay running at 50-100 rpm higher than base idle speed until 160*F.
From what I understand they are a MAP based system, perhaps you still have enough of a leak that vacuum isn't in the desired range?
It's all just theory to me since I know nothing about them, but it does seem to me that the higher speed is being commanded if the IAC counts increase as you close the throttle.
What I do find interesting is that when you close the throttle blades the IAC counts increase. It would seem to me that it's because the ECM is commanding the higher idle speed for some reason.
Perhaps it defaults to a higher speed if a sensor is out of range?
Ford EFI will do this for a number of different reasons, like TPS out of range. There are also various idle speed adders that are built in to the software. For instance, cold start up adds 200 rpm to the base idle speed for a certain amount of time, then will stay running at 50-100 rpm higher than base idle speed until 160*F.
From what I understand they are a MAP based system, perhaps you still have enough of a leak that vacuum isn't in the desired range?
It's all just theory to me since I know nothing about them, but it does seem to me that the higher speed is being commanded if the IAC counts increase as you close the throttle.
EFI GUY, sure wish you were in Portland, cause I'm tired of messing with. The wife is about to kill me, and I've kicked the dog on this one. We got a guy over here that works classic cars, does builds, and after market parts, he really good, but 2 weeks out. MSD techs are no help, they do say it needs a little tweeking, but really don't send me in any direction. It doesn't seem very complicated. At the same time I missed several bronco runs and shows. With a lot of people watching, this isn't going good for MSD advertising........jzpdx
Well, if you're able to view data on your setup with a PC based laptop I may be able to help. You will need decent internet speed at the vehicle though.
You can download the free version of Teamviewer and let me take a look remotely. Like I said I've never touched the Atomic system, but I've helped a few people track down problems remotely on other systems that I'm not familiar with. It will probably just depend on how much critical data I can see. I'll PM you my number if you want to give it a shot.
You can download the free version of Teamviewer and let me take a look remotely. Like I said I've never touched the Atomic system, but I've helped a few people track down problems remotely on other systems that I'm not familiar with. It will probably just depend on how much critical data I can see. I'll PM you my number if you want to give it a shot.
Update, trucks in the shop now. Like I said, I kicked the dog on this one. Now fuel pump problems. At about 7 weeks now. I'll tell the whole story if I ever get it running. Warning once you spent the 2300 bucks there's no turning back.
Atomic MSD Problems
when my bronco starts 1st or 2nd try it runs great and will start fairly easy the rest of the day, 2 times in the last 2 weeks it will not start, it starts and runs like its flooding, heavy smoke and rpm around 150-250,its always done this for a few seconds, its getting worse. I've called MSD tec and changed IAC motor, same results, when It won't stare IAC#175 and will not change. the idle has always been high around 1100-1200, blades were at 1 full turn open, and lowered to lower RPM. Any one else having these problems
when my bronco starts 1st or 2nd try it runs great and will start fairly easy the rest of the day, 2 times in the last 2 weeks it will not start, it starts and runs like its flooding, heavy smoke and rpm around 150-250,its always done this for a few seconds, its getting worse. I've called MSD tec and changed IAC motor, same results, when It won't stare IAC#175 and will not change. the idle has always been high around 1100-1200, blades were at 1 full turn open, and lowered to lower RPM. Any one else having these problems
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Hey mananian, welcome to classicbroncos. Unfortunately with a problem, but hey, that's why a LOT of members have come here in the first place too!
Glad you brought this back up, in case jzpdx is still around and has any updates.
I'll ask you the same thing we asked him first too though, and that's what is the general condition of your main electrical system? Did you update anything when you did the Atomic conversion? Are you running return line, or returnless?
Strange that it worked well before, but is starting to get worse and worse, but it would not be the first time that something went south that way on an Early Bronco!
Oh, and what's your voltage reading when the engine is running?
Anyway, fill us in on some of the other gory details and hopefully you can get rid of that gremlin.
Good luck.
Paul
Glad you brought this back up, in case jzpdx is still around and has any updates.
I'll ask you the same thing we asked him first too though, and that's what is the general condition of your main electrical system? Did you update anything when you did the Atomic conversion? Are you running return line, or returnless?
Strange that it worked well before, but is starting to get worse and worse, but it would not be the first time that something went south that way on an Early Bronco!
Oh, and what's your voltage reading when the engine is running?
Anyway, fill us in on some of the other gory details and hopefully you can get rid of that gremlin.
Good luck.
Paul
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