Basket Case Bronco (Needing Door/Cab Measurements)

[ptwist]

I finally puller the trigger and bought a sweet 66 bronco. Unfortunately the prior owner had attempted to do some work on the truck and possibly made it very challenging to put the old girl back together. Fortunately I got what I think is a great deal so I have some room to work.

The prior owner had purchased/partially installed the entire front clip. purchased floor pans, trans tunnel, upper seat plat form, braces/supports, inner/outer rockers, door hinges, front/rear door post, rear door post support, kick panels, and probably stuff i missed. He didn't really install any of it.

So the big challenge will be that the prior owner removed the riverside door post and partially removed the outer drivers side Rocker. Also the floor pans were completely gone. So I don't really know if he got the front door post in correctly as well as I was seeing that Tom's bronco parts had some problems with those parts but im guessing they are wrong. Oh and the bracing he used was a joke and didn't help anything at all.

Im basically looking for advise on where to start on this project and if anyone could help on the dimension for the doors.

 

[Attac]

This is about the best one around
http://classicbroncos.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=458013&d=1534049927

Chuck

 

[ptwist]

So I took the faro arm to the bronco last night and its surprisingly closer that I was expecting on the un modified (passenger side). I took way to much data (4000+) points and the models a bit unwieldy so im going to redo it tonight. The door post were at 38.727 in. from face to face so it surprisingly close. Are the surface of the poor post meant to be perfectly parallel? My door post seem to be rotated a few degrees to the outside of the truck.

The image I post is of the surfaces form the truck.

 

[bronkenn]

I believe they are angled a bit towards the front.

 

[ptwist]

I got my SD card over lunch so I could post a few more photos. After I looked at the point cloud I created last night I decided that spraying points all over the cab was a bit pointless as I wouldn't really be able to tell where they were in reference once the parts were gone. I marked out about 120 points inside the cab and im going to probe them tonight. My plan is by gathering points on the parts that will be removed as well as the parts that will stay I should be able to relocate the new parts in relation to the old parts. I might put some more on the parts that are staying as reference but havent decided yet.

 

[ptwist]

Took the Faro Arm back to the bronco last night. Took 130 point some useful some not so much. Im planning to take the paint off the pillars and just probe passenger side door opening tomorrow. The main question im having about the truck is how good it is to even use for taking data. My numbers are ball park with what is on the spread sheet but I cant tell exactly where the measurements were taken from. Can anyone validate that the numbers im seeing one the passenger side are correct? Also is this going to be helpful for anyone/ should I keep posting the results?

Disclaimer: Data is shown in one of the photos from the driver side but dont trust it as some has done very low quality work on the pillars form that side.

 

[Pops68]

ptwist.........I am totally lost on all of this.

And not afraid to admit it!!!

You asked!!!

 

[ptwist]

Shoot, sorry about that. A faro arm is a portable CMM which can take measurements of basically any thing within a 4.5 ft radius of the base. I use it to check tolerances on machined tooling from my machine shop. Im using it to reverse engineering my cab before I take it apart so that I can potentially put it back. so I put down 130 points throughout the cab then probed them with the faro.

 

[Pops68]

I kinda figured what it did from your earlier posts. That is one wild looking tool!

PLEASE, don't take this wrong.......could you be over-thinking it a bit?? Seems to me, WAY to many points taken - and you say YOU don't remember what each is for (or something like that). The pic with all the 'X's and the 6 diagonal lines - what is it?? Too 'busy' with un-needed info??

Example: my son is a Junior Mech. Engineering major and wanted to build a base stand for his computer tower. I had the design done in my head in 10 seconds, but he had to use CAD to design it - sent me several drawings, which were hard for me to understand/picture in reality. It worked out fine, though.

I do understand your desire, especially since you use this tool for work. I swear I have read on here before - and believe it - that no 2 Broncos are exactly the same.......so, your best reference may be the chart displayed early on, unless you can find a Ford body shop book (already mentioned by another person in your CAD thread, I think).

 

[Rustytruck]

If this was my project the first thing i would do is get the frame on jack stands and off its wheels. Then adjust the stands until the top of the bed rails on both sides are level and plumb. the rear face of the door jam at the bed outside needs to be vertical and the outside rocker top ledge must be level. Now mount the front fender to the front post and the front of the core support. Then mount the hood. now take a look at all the body lines and gaps. now you can also measure the door opening and see how it fits to your diagram.

The door opening is most critical and you want proper alignment to the top of the rear bed rail and the front at the top of the fender. The hood properly mounted and square will tell you if the fenders are properly located. It will become very apparent if the front door post is improperly located.

While i like your fancy tool you have to remember that these trucks were built by tape measure and in some cases by people who cant read a tape measure. The best tool you can have is a local Bronco Owner that can come by periodically for a measuring session and a assembly guide so to speak. Old Broncos were a utility truck there is no precision anywhere. They are crude compared to anything built in the last 20 years.

 

[ptwist]

Rustytruck!!!!!!! Thank you so much for posting. I'm doing it right now.

 

[ptwist]

Pops68. Its a little hard to tell if I am over thinking it which I have been known to do form time to time. Might be a mechanical engineering thing haha! It will probably add clarity to what im doing once I post the rest of the pics and if you were the cad model up. I could share the cloud with you and you and your son could check it out if you like. Your right the first point cloud was basically useless for anything but surface design. The cad model of the second point cloud has each point labeled in the model which correlate to the points on the body of the truck so it makes a lot more since if your looking at the two together in full detail. Also this is definitely the fastest way that I could take the measurements that I need now and have what I don't know I need yet for later. All in thinking it took just over an hour to produce each point cloud (most of that time being putting the points on the truck with the marker).

 

[jmhend]

This is about the best one around
http://classicbroncos.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=458013&d=1534049927

Chuck

i agree, twist did you look at the link?

 

[ptwist]

Rustytruck. Took you advise paragraph 1 of leveling. It resulted in no notable change in deminsions of the door post front/rear, passenger floor pan, or drivers upper deck. I did see +.0131 in. upward to the cab at the transmission tunnel and down -.0161 in. In the bed rear wheel well locations. No idea why or what this means. Some is a result of measment error/operate error but the other 100 some point are around +/-.007.

 

[DirtDonk]

I like all the reference points you get with that tool. Remember too though, that if your body cushions are all original and sacked out at different levels, this will effect your door openings and many other aspects of the body as well.
In general, if they're in good shape they should all be a consistent (but approximate%)) 3/4" tall between the body and the frame mounts.

Whether rubber or polyurethane, they're all the same thickness. If they're roughly 1.75" tall though, they're the mounts with the integrated 1" lift. Still all 8 would be the same height.

Don't know if yours were replaced by the PO or not, but thought I'd throw that out there since old tired mounts/cushions/insulators can really wreak havoc on the body alignment numbers.

Paul

 

[ptwist]

Dirtdonk, The truck does have brand new bushings. The prior owner bought a tone of new parts for the truck but hadn't put them in so now I got them.

 

[ptwist]

Got back to it over weekend. Im contributing the slight shift in the points to transfer of load around the body when I leveled the frame out. Im think that since the guy before me had cut the rockers and the floor boards are gone that the only place for the load to move through is the transmission tunnel and the bed which caused the shift in the body.

After I decided what had probably caused the shift I got to it and removed the floor. the floor removal after I got the nerve to do it took me about 9-11 hr. with the front bed fillers being the worst part by far. I took the faro back to it after the floor had been removed and did see some the trans tunnel points (unconstrained) nearly moved back to position 1. The floor is gone so couldn't check any of those point. The driver’s side A-pillar had dropped by .113 in. and shifted in by .021 in. (inconsistent bottom was greater than top). The drives side striker had shifted out by .036 in. in the top. none in the bottom. Passenger side striker shifted out by .006 in. but that could be measurement error. passenger side door post top shifted in by .011 in. and bottom no real change. Overall, I am not really surprised to see the change in the driver side because it was basically free form the body when I got the truck.

Right or wrong I suspended the driver’s side door pillar/firewall from the rafter and got it back to where it was to begin and added a ratchet strap between the bed rails to keep the strikers from moving apart. Even though I don't really think the truck was right from the beginning I put it back in the starting position. Im planning on doing a more extensive write up with pictures of the data which can show the changes after the project is done but it just takes to much time to make them legible for now. Any recommendations advise is really appreciated.

 

[rydog1130]

These things had 1/4" tolerances so there's lots of room. Start by rebuilding your floor pan section. SHEAT METAL SCREW everything together before you even think about welding. Once you have your floor pan together, then you can fit your door post and doors. Leave your top on it will help you set your gaps right. Once that's looking pretty you can fit your rockers to get the correct gap at the bottom of your door...I used two harbor freight body jacks to help push and lift things into place, you might want to get one! good luck

 

[ptwist]

When I am ready to weld it together what distance/diameter should be used for the the spot welds and what distance from the part edge? looks like ford tried to do 3/8 diameter with random placement?. Thinking 3/8 diameter with linear hole spacing at 1.125 in. (3X diameter) on center.

 

[Rustytruck]

Random placement was manual placement on a rolling assembly line and if the guy actually hit all his spots or had a hangover you never got the same performance on each truck.

My 1974 Bronco the top of the the passengers side rocker was missing about 12 spot welds. Guy probably went to the bathroom or for a smoke. Drivers side lower rocker flange was spot welded out of alignment by 1/4" for the whole length of the flange. Pretty hard to do with a bent lip to locate the part. There were several other assembly errors I found when doing a new paint job.