Body work/rust repair: Advice needed!

[73AnneBoleyn]

Ok, so I'm getting ready to repair my Swiss cheese floor pans, and replace my rotted windshield frame. My Bronco has a hard top on, and no doors. My Bronco will never be a beauty queen. I want her to not be an eyesore, and to be capable off road. In other words, I don't care about her looking perfect. I do want to ensure she is safe and soundly assembled.

My intent is to cut out the floor pans and toe board, and weld new ones in. Then, remove the hard top and put in a new windshield frame and glass.

However, I am not sure of the rust that is in these pictures is going to be a problem. At the minimum, of course, I'll put Rust Bullet or something on it. Or, I can weld in some patches of some sort. My question is...is that enough, or do I need to replace the rocker, door post, kick panel, or inner fender? I really don't want to do any of that, even though I have a brand spanking new door post in my possession. It would add a whole new level of pain and frustration to this project. This is the first body work and welding that I will even have done.

If any or all of those items need to be replaced (again, because of function, not aesthetics), then in what order should I do the floor pans, windshield frame, and all of the new work?

If it matters, she will usually be run with a hard top and no doors, occassionally removing the hard top.

Thanks so much!

 

[suckerpunched]

here is the way rust repair usually goes. (at least for me) Say you intend to fix the floor pans, you cut them out and find out the floor support channels are rotten too so you begin to replace them. Then you figure out that the area on the inner rocker and lower kick panel that it all gets welded to is not there any more. So depending on severity, you might be able to patch pieces in, or it might be easier to replace them with new panels, so you keep cutting and find out the outer rockers are shot and the inner front fender apron is shot too, so you keep cutting, now you can't very easily weld a rotted out door post or striker post to all this new metal so you keep digging. sorry to sound so negative but I have fixed a few cars, none of which were as rusty as what you are working on. (I live in central California and old cars here rust at a slower rate than where you are) Now that being said you could change the floor pan and scab some metal in here and there and it will probably prevent your beer from falling through the floor. Maybe this is ok for you (and thats fine if it is) My OCD gets to me and I feel I have to make it look better than when it rolled out of the factory. My way is probably not right for you either, but somewhere in between there has got to be a happy medium, but I don't know how to achieve it.

 

[nvrstuk]

suckerpunched is right...I'm in the middle of this now...where do you STOP!! Aaaaugh!

I'm stopping now so I can drive my rig again. Started as a 4 link in the rear...stretched WB, ORI's...cut the fenders out...door posts were shot, replaced those, lowered the seat floor pans for seat clearance. Modified the gas tank again so I could still pack 22 gallons. Then when the Atlas came out the driveshaft hit the 4r70W shift selector...so in goes a narrowed D60 front end so I can have 4 wheel drive...

Then the month of narrowing and stuffing it in...then cutting out all the inner fenders up front, then patching over 80 5/16" or larger drilled holes in the frame, the body mounts and cross members had to go so suspension could work, steering box had to move back 10"...then... yeah...9 months now... LOL

You will find all kinds of stuff you NEVER thought you'd get into...

Good luck

 

[73AnneBoleyn]

Thanks the the comments, gents! I'm not concerned about getting it show car clean. She's mainly going to be used for fun trips around town and wheeling. I want to either treat the rust or patch it, so it doesn't spread, but I'm not interested in completely rebuilding my tub. As tempting as that sounds...

After reading a number of threads here and builds, I see that some people have issues with their cowl or dash drooping an inch or more because their kick panel was so rusted or missing altogether. So my primary concern is, with no doors and a hard top on, can I safely:
1. Replace the floor pans
2. Then remove the hard top and swap in a new windshield frame

If I have to, I can replace the door pillar, but then I think that means I also need to do the rocker and heaven knows what else.

EDIT: I should add: I know the right way to do it is to replace the inner fender, door post, rockers, kick panel, and whatever else I find. But I will admit that I want to get away with doing the minimal amount of work, while maintaining structural integrity. So hoping that treating the rust and patching might suffice.

SECOND EDIT: Heck, I'm starting to convince myself to get new inner and outer fenders, rockers, and kick panel and just do it right. But that is REALLY overwhelming for someone who doesn't have any body work or much welding experience. I may be in too deep...

 

[69broncofun]

This is just my 2 cents. I say do it all it will give you the experience and if you get stuck on something come on here for help. Good luck!

 

[jmangi62]

here is the way rust repair usually goes. (at least for me) Say you intend to fix the floor pans, you cut them out and find out the floor support channels are rotten too so you begin to replace them. Then you figure out that the area on the inner rocker and lower kick panel that it all gets welded too is not there any more. So depending on severity, you might be able to patch pieces in, or it might be easier to replace them with new panels, so you keep cutting and find out the outer rockers are shot and the inner front fender apron is shot too, so you keep cutting, now you can't very easily weld a rotted out door post or striker post to all this new metal so you keep digging. sorry to sound so negative but I have fixed a few cars, none of which were as rusty as what you are working on. (I live in central California and old cars here rust at a slower rate than where you are) Now that being said you could change the floor pan and scab some metal in here and there and it will probably prevent your beer from falling through the floor. Maybe this is ok for you (and thats fine if it is) My OCD gets to me and I feel I have to make it look better than when it rolled out of the factory. My way is probably not right for you either, but somewhere in between there has got to be a happy medium, but I don't know how to achieve it.

^^^^^ Man, aint that the truth. LOL.

 

[jmeyer1971]

If she's not a show queen do the repairs ...be happy with your work ...and gain experience for your next endevor...these skills and knowledge overlap and will help you down the road

 

[73AnneBoleyn]

Man, y'all are giving me the advice I didn't want to hear! Lol

Now I'm thinking, maybe take the rockers out altogether and out skis in? Can I take the rockers out and replace with a steel ski (not a skin, I mean no rocker at all)?

 

[rydog1130]

My advice...don't touch it if your not prepared or willing to open the can of worms. Looking at your pictures your going to end up replacing everything you mentioned, your inner kick panel looks shot, your rockers have substantial rust around the seams...im afraid if you start tearing it apart your going to get in over your head. If it runs and drives get some 20 gauge steel and sheet metal screw it over your floor plans. It'll keep your feet and other items from falling through while you bomb around town and enjoy your bronco. You say you're not looking for a beauty queen but if down the road you want a nice looking truck, take the plunge and tear into it!

 

[Skiddy]

Man, y'all are giving me the advice I didn't want to hear! Lol

Now I'm thinking, maybe take the rockers out altogether and out skis in? Can I take the rockers out and replace with a steel ski (not a skin, I mean no rocker at all)?

yeah easy to cut the rockers and install skis, all the vendors sell some type or another. I like the ones made out of square tubing either bolted or welded to the frame.

 

[73AnneBoleyn]

Skiddy, as soon as I saw you reply I thought, "great, he's gonna put more on my 'to do' list." ;D

Yeah, I saw the ones vendors sell. I think I like ones that replace the rocker, and not just guard the rocker. I saw one or two like that, although I can't remember who made them. I'll search again. So, removing rockers and replacing them with skis that attach to the frame, not the body, don't structurally compromise the tub?

 

[snipes243]

So mine basically looked exactly like
Yours. I just order new floor pans. I only cut out what the new plans would fit. I had to make a couple little patch panels to fix the rush. The inner kick panels I just strayed with rust preventer and tacked covers over the holes actually didn't come out that bad. Just take your time.

 

[73AnneBoleyn]

Thanks, Snipes! Craft beer and burgers if you want to come down to Charlotte to assist with this body work. ;D I'm looking at a couple of MIG welders, and plan to order one this week. Figure I'll be at the welding stage in a couple of weekends, once I get the pans cut out. My buddy will be helping out, and he's got a little bit of welding experience. Between the two of us, we should be able to figure things out. But experience is always welcome!

 

[73AnneBoleyn]

Ok, I did it. I just bought a Hobart 140 from Northern Tool. Never, ever did I expect to learn to weld, but here I am. So the welder will be delivered next week. Obviously I'm going to get gloves and an auto-darkening mask. I guess I need a hammer and brush? More wire? It comes with 2 lbs of .030 flux core wire. I know I'll need more, but is this a good general purpose size? I may get gas so I can MIG, but am not looking forward to another $100+ purchase. Any "oh, you will definitely need ____ to weld" tips?

Thanks to everyone who has given me assistance here and in PMs! Rydog, I was *this close* to doing just what you said. But I figure I might as well spend a couple of weekends doing it right and then move on to all the other projects on my truck. The rest of them are relatively straight forward. A few hours each weekend, and she should be ready to rumble in a few months!

I love this board.

 

[suckerpunched]

Rust repair for me is pretty time consuming, but so is everything else now that I think about it. Maybe it is just me. Don't be discouraged if you don't get as far as you want to in a weekend. I usually estimate the time I think a project will take and multiply that by 3.

How are you planning to do your cutting away of old metal? you will spend quite a bit of time cutting metal back to something good you can actually weld to. For spot welds I use either a drill bit or spot weld cutter. I also use the heck out of a 3" cut off wheel in a die grinder. other guys use bigger grinders with cut off wheels, great tool but dangerous IMO. I know quite a few people that have scars from them, including me. air chisel works for some things or maybe a sawsall.

 

[73AnneBoleyn]

My plan is to follow Mark's method, here: http://classicbroncos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142374

Tools I have at my disposal: 4" angle grinder with cutoff wheel, air chisel, sawzall. I guess I could get a spot weld cutter, but I figure the tools I already have should do the trick.

Thoughts?

 

[bronkenn]

A spot weld cutter is a very handy tool along with an air chisel. I run a 2 inch grinder flat across the spot welds and it makes seeing them easier. Also hold a light at an angle to the spot welds and you can see the indentations and put a dot in the middle of them with a marker and drill them through the first layer of metal then hit with your chisel. Ken

 

[rydog1130]

A spot weld cutter is a very handy tool along with an air chisel. I run a 2 inch grinder flat across the spot welds and it makes seeing them easier. Also hold a light at an angle to the spot welds and you can see the indentations and put a dot in the middle of them with a marker and drill them through the first layer of metal then hit with your chisel. Ken

Not to mention if you have a harbor freight close by its $5 and they work amazingly well! go get one!

 

[Rustytruck]

Leave your hood on. Leave your fenders and grill together. Then when you decide where to start. You can put your pieces in place and use a few poprivets to temporary hold parts in place. Then put your fenders and grill in place with a few bolts and drop the hood down to check the fit. If it all fits then take sheet metal screws and screw the new pieces in place. Screw it all together in the same spots you would spot weld. Put the sheet metal back in place. Check the fit. You will get a better job screwing it all together and removing the screw and then welding up one hole at a time . I perfer to use either pop rivets or use the small sheetmetal screws used in building steel stud structures. The small rivets or screws let you open and close doors. Mount fenders and windshield frames and hinges with out a big hex head getting away. Screwed or riveted together is very strong you can move or drive the truck if you had too. Big projects are made into small projects. Time is no longer a factor. Once your happy you can pull screws or rivets and weld. Once you pull the hood off or totally dissassemble the front clip it becomes such a project to assemble to check the fit or keep using the truck. But to remove the front clip as a whole it takes 2 people. Its not heavy but bulky. You dont use doors but doors are so important in the placement of all the sub structure. If the doors fit properly during assembly the parts are in the proper place.

 

[73AnneBoleyn]

So today I got the passenger floor pan out. They were replaced at some point previously, but not very well. And the PO sprayed Great Stuff between the floor supports and the new pans. Why? Who knows? The toe board was welded over the old one, and yep, more Great Stuff between the two.

The forward floor support is cracked at the body mount, and so the whole support from the body mount to the rocker is bent down. I'm guessing that's the reason there is a gap between my rocker and fender.

I think I'll just replace the floor supports, and plan on replacing the drivers side as well. Since I'm changing the body mounts, I'm hoping this won't be too challenging of a project. I have no idea how the floor supports attach to the floors, or where/how they to the frame/body, but I'll figure it out.

Part of me says to just save myself the headache, and replace all the floor and supports from the bed to the front. Ugh. It's always something...