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Bullet Proof Steering and a 77 OEm Sway Bar

Texas CB

Jr. Member
Joined
May 30, 2012
Messages
202
Loc.
Austin
Wondering if anyone here has converted the steering on a 76-77 with the OEM sway bar? Looking at Bullet Proof Steering right now. I am wondering if it will fit once you get rid of the inverted Y? Also debating the Trail Proof vs Race Proof. Leaning towards the Race Proof but the OEM thickness of the Trail Proof will make fitting the steering stabilizer easier I would think. I would think the new system will fit but not sure once there is some flex. Tie rod over knuckle is also an option at that time but having trouble conceptualizing how it will all space out. Thoughts?

Also- since I am asking, debating putting on the Reid Racing steering knuckles at the same time. However, it says they are off road only. Is that true? Mine is 80% street and 20% hunting/light to moderate offroad. I expect the ball joints to go in the not distant future, so just planning it all out.....

Thanks!
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
49,429
Not sure what would make the Reid's incompatible with the street. It's probably a legal thing like on headers and other performance goodies. But I could be wrong. I sell them and have never heard the off-road only thing become a problem.
I can check, but it's probably a CYA thing.

Good question on the clearance. Been awhile since I've seen a factory swaybar up close with a tape measure in my hand. And even the shop's '76 now has the Helwig kit on the front to replace the factory one.
Be interested to hear what others say, but from our own experience with our tie-rod conversion kits, there are no clearance issues. Unless all the customers have just removed their anti-sway bars and never put them back on!
Guess I have to check on that now as well. Rats, making more work for myself.

In general, when going TRO, especially with larger diameter tubing, the things you do have to watch out for are front lower shock mounts and the lower track bar bolt hitting.
If you use a riser and have the bolt cut short, that is not an issue. Some here have even found low-profile nuts and cut the extra threads off of the trackbar bolt. For at least the moderately big tie-rods this seems to work fine. The bigger Race Proof? Not sure.

The other issue that you may already know about is the clearance between the steering arm part of the knuckles and the inner edge of the wheel rim. Clearance is at a premium there.
The "Heim" type spherical rod ends you're thinking of typically have a little better clearance than a traditional tapered stud ball-and-socket type rod end has, but that's no guarantee of fitment either.
If you already have spacers, or wheels with less backspacing, then you've probably already dealt with this potential issue. Given that you show 32" as your current tire size, you may not actually have run afoul of that yet. So it's worth mentioning.

Good luck. Hopefully someone has had direct experience with the swaybar issue, but I'd bet that most members here have removed them long ago. It's only more recently that the street has taken precedence over the trail for most owners.

Paul
 

blubuckaroo

Grease Monkey
Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Messages
11,795
Loc.
Ridgefield WA
I installed the Wild Horses "Y to T" three way adjustable on our '77. I reinstalled the sway bar without any issues. I did leave the hydraulic stabilizer off though, and haven't missed it at all. ;)
 
OP
OP
Texas CB

Texas CB

Jr. Member
Joined
May 30, 2012
Messages
202
Loc.
Austin
Paul and Blu- thanks both. I actually had never thought of pulling the sway bar off for good, as I haven't been able to do any serious offroading in the year I have had mine. The OEM suspension is so shot, even little dips in gravel roads give it fits. Pretty excited today as I have been ordering all the ancillary parts for a suspension rebuild for months, but today is the big day I finally pull the trigger on the WH 2.5" premium one! Anyway- I pulled my sway bar off yesterday to start getting my steering, frame, and axles cleaned up with rust sealer so they look nice for the lift. I do not lack for acceleration with the new 351W and geared 3.50. I was really caught off guard pulling out fast into oncoming traffic on a wet road the difference in handling. Think I will keep it for on road but maybe figure out a quick disconnect for it for offroad. Another project...

Good to know about the possible need for spacers. I do not have any yet, but am dead set on the US Mag racing slots when I get that far on my rebuild. Sounds like I will need spacers for them anyway on the 77 so I can just add it to the list (yes that list that grows not shrinks the more I do to the rig).

Please do let me know about the Reid Knuckles. I just had to replace the u-joints on my driveshaft so thinking I need to do the ones on the Dana44 soon too. If I am going to change knuckles, may as well when I have everything pulled apart.....

Maybe stick to the Trail Proof steering. Same thickness tubing as the OEM steering so assume the stabilizer will bolt right up to it, although not sure with the change in geometry.
 

welndmn

Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 12, 2001
Messages
2,112
Not sure what would make the Reid's incompatible with the street. It's probably a legal thing like on headers and other performance goodies. But I could be wrong. I sell them and have never heard the off-road only thing become a problem.
I can check, but it's probably a CYA thing.

l


It's purely a lawyer thing. Because it's a steering part is needs to carry a DOT approval on it and it does not have a DOT approval. The main reason it does not have the approval is because of the cost of the process. For the cost, to the approval, it would take over 9 years at current sales to break even, and companies are always wanting to just make even money.
Buy them, they are a quality peice and unlike most stock knuckles, not bent from some money hammering ball joints into them.

The rod end steering setup will "not be for street use" as well.
I'd get more opinions on that too, rod ends (heims) tend to transmit more vibrations through the steering than a TRE, they also wear out quicker. Unless is a full blown race car or a trail rig, I always use TRE's on steering. Ruff stuff has a very nice weld together kit that uses thick wall tubing, but as Paul said, fitting it on a Stock 76-77 knuckle can be a challenge, changing knuckles removes that challenge.
 

jw0747

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 22, 2006
Messages
2,434
Loc.
San Antonio, TX
You might want to look at the Stonecrusher steering system now offered by Duffs. Mine has one for 8 yrs and it's bulletproof.
 
OP
OP
Texas CB

Texas CB

Jr. Member
Joined
May 30, 2012
Messages
202
Loc.
Austin
Great to know regarding the Reids. Putting them on with new ball joints while redoing the ujoints will kill 2 birds with one stone....which is 4-6 less things to brake when I am hunting in the middle of nowhere S.Texas. No easy way to get help where I go down there and I am often alone, so trying to build mine up to be as bullet proof as possible.

Those Duffs look nice too. I have been reading up on the TREs vs Heims. Looks like the heims used by racers are pretty much disposable and would not be good for a regular use street rig. The info/testing from Bullet Proof (which I admit is likely going to be pretty biased) looks like their heims are made to last longer and stay tighter then the TREs. Not sure if thats true, so will definitely be looking for reviews and feedback on those as well before pulling the trigger on them.

So from the sounds of it- Reid 76-77 knuckles with BulletProof or Duff tie rod over knuckles should fit the stock 77 sway bar with the caveat that I may need to use spacers....which I plan to use anyway with the racing slot wheels.....cool. Got my work cutout for me.
 

wepuckett

Sr. Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2014
Messages
721
Hey Texas if you can let me know what you find out on your research and decide maybe even pass along some links that would be great as I am about to begin the same research project but it will be a tad different as i will be swapping a front axle with disc brakes from a 76 or 77 frame to a 73. Reason for doing so title issues but no biggy. Again a big thanks for the thread I will be following to see what you learned and do some reading on my own too to make sure the differences we have won't change the outcome.
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
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Nov 3, 2003
Messages
49,429
...Good to know about the possible need for spacers. I do not have any yet, but am dead set on the US Mag racing slots when I get that far on my rebuild. Sounds like I will need spacers for them anyway on the 77 so I can just add it to the list (yes that list that grows not shrinks the more I do to the rig).

If you're sticking with the 15" wheel size, it's a tighter fit than a similar width and offset 16 or 17 inch wheel. In case either of those is an option with the style you're looking at. Since they're US slots, I'm guessing 15 only though.
I forget what choices (besides 9 or 10 inch wide) they have in backspacing, but if one of the choices is 3.5" that might make it easier.


Maybe stick to the Trail Proof steering. Same thickness tubing as the OEM steering so assume the stabilizer will bolt right up to it, although not sure with the change in geometry.

Their smallest tubing is still substantially larger in diameter than stock EB stuff. Theirs is 1 1/8" vs stock 66-75 EB at about 7/8" I want to say?

As far as the stabilizer shock is concerned then, you will still have to modify the brackets and/or u-bolts to fit the larger draglink. If you ever go with a dropped pitman arm (yes, even with only 2.5" of lift, it can help sometimes) you might need to drop the frame mounted bracket to have a better angle. Or just do what some do and leave it where it is so the shock has about a 15° down-bubble attitude.
Or do what most do and, like was mentioned, leave it off.


It's purely a lawyer thing.

Thanks for confirming that!


...fitting it on a Stock 76-77 knuckle can be a challenge, changing knuckles removes that challenge.

You could possibly kill a third bird with that same stone by purchasing a non-Ford version of the Reid knuckles. The reason is that even theirs is based on the '76/77 EB knuckle. So it has the exact same steering arm clearance issue as a stock one.
Maybe one of the ball-joint GM versions? Might be worth looking in to anyway.


...which is 4-6 less things to brake when I am hunting in the middle of nowhere S.Texas. No easy way to get help where I go down there and I am often alone, so trying to build mine up to be as bullet proof as possible.

A noble cause! And I'm just excited to see someone building a Bronco for off-highway use these days too. Most ain't no more...


Those Duffs look nice too. I have been reading up on the TREs vs Heims. Looks like the heims used by racers are pretty much disposable and would not be good for a regular use street rig. The info/testing from Bullet Proof (which I admit is likely going to be pretty biased) looks like their heims are made to last longer and stay tighter then the TREs. Not sure if thats true, so will definitely be looking for reviews and feedback on those as well before pulling the trigger on them.

Lots of feedback on there hereabouts. Should be easy enough to find plenty of discussions both ways I would think. The throwaway thing is true enough, but those are typically much smaller units than you see included in the kits sold around here. Not sure how many are using the super nice cryo-treated ones from Ruff Stuff, but those look nice too.
I still prefer a tapered stud tie-rod end myself, but don't want to automatically sell the SRE's short either, when they're properly sized and made for truck use.
Of course, I'm biased too, which is why I just gotta throw these in the mix for your consideration and viewing pleasure: http://www.wildhorses4x4.com/product/CLYDESDALE-Tie-Rod-Drag-Link


So from the sounds of it- Reid 76-77 knuckles with BulletProof or Duff tie rod over knuckles should fit the stock 77 sway bar with the caveat that I may need to use spacers....which I plan to use anyway with the racing slot wheels.....cool. Got my work cutout for me.

Indeed! 'Gonna be fun though, right? ;D

Paul
 

mp

Bronco Guru
Joined
Dec 22, 2001
Messages
2,918
Loc.
Austin, TX
Why do you need Reid knuckles--why not replace the balljoints and put the money elsewhere? Reid knuckles are not cheap--if you are not rock crawling, I don't think you would need them for an 80% street rig.
 
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