Cam change questions

[COBlu77]

I resisted this, but I'm going to change my cam to correct the firing order for my EFI conversion. I just ordered a Summit K4400 351W flat tappet cam.

Can I get away with just removing the grill and radiator to make the exchange or do I really have to have the engine out? This will be my first time at this so any other tips would be greatly appreciated.

 

[tflack]

Just the radiator and grill will work!

 

[BigDave]

I just did a cam change to my '69 a couple of weekends ago, I thought I could get away with just removing the radiator, but as previously noted NOPE! It lacks a good 5-6" of being able to clear the block. Now you do realize that the 'grill' really means the entire front clip! I didn't! And the PO of mine had really cludged it, so for me it was a real task removing it. But I finally got it back together, and all is well, I did order a complete new set of bolts and body nuts for the front clip from Jeff's Bronco Graveyard, because let me just warn you, if the body 'spring nuts' aren't there, and it is just standard nuts and bolts holding the front clip on, your gonna have fun. There is just very little room on the inside edges of the front clip to get a wrench in there to hold a nut while removing the bolt from the wheel well. Anyways, hope this provides some insight.

 

[crab]

I agree with the above. Pulling the motor isn't as bad as it sounds and is good experiance. Then you can clean up the engine compartment which will lead to a body off restoration ;D
Seriously though, pull the engine

 

[HotWheels]

Just the grill and the radiator is fine. I did this on mine also.

 

[daddyg]

I agree taking the motor out is probably best. I have done it both ways. Right now I have mine stripped down to almost the bare block and it's still in the Bronco. I was first only going to remove the heads, then I decided I might as well change the cam while I was in there. Then I decided to change the oil pump while I was at it. The reason for all this is my Bronco has been sitting for several years. I wish I had just started by pulling the motor it would of been much simplier, but when I started I hadn't planned on going this far with it.

But to answer your orginal question, yes you can just pull radiator and front clip.

 

[COBlu77]

Now I'm a little torn. This project has really taken on a life of it's own. I think I'l try and get the grill off and see how that goes. It's just 9 bolts right? Three on either side and three at the hood latch.

 

[ponch0v]

Nope...there are 5 on the fenders. 4 are in the wheel well and 1 is tucked way up under the top corner that you get to from above the head lamp. Three on the hood latch. Soak em before you try and remove the bolts. For those that have the room (and equipment) they can pull the motor...I pulled the grill off (the radiators gotta come out anyway)

 

[Howdy]

Just take off the grill. Once you figure out where all the bolts are its a piece of cake. If your bolts are in halfway decent shape you will have it off within 30 to 45 minutes. Then you will have plenty of room to reach through to the front of the engine. Pulling the engine isn't even an option unless there are other issues you need to take care of on that engine while its out and easy to get to.

 

[BUCKETOBOLTS]

I wouldn't pull the engine for just a cam swap. Kinda like a snowball though. If you pull the engine a $200 cam swap could turn out to be a $2000 rebuild. Its up to you to decide.

 

[66horse]

Your EFI will run fine without the CAM swap. Just wait until the engine needs rebuilding to change cams.

The offset firing order and injection has shown no ill effects in the year I have been running it that way.

Cheers!

 

[COBlu77]

66horse, You're telling me what I want to hear. I've gone around and around with this, because my current engine was rebuilt about 15,000 miles ago and is real nice. Runs strong, doesn't leak, easily passes emissions, and idles smoothly. I'd rather not mess with something as intrusive as a cam swap, if I don't have too, but I want to do my EFI swap right and don't want to discover after the fact I'm unhappy with the idle quality.

When I decided to do an EFI swap, the popular consensus from Ryan, Ron Morris, and many including yourself from this site said to just swap the computer pins, "you'll never notice the difference". This was a major factor in me deciding to do this swap. Now Ryan and Ron Morris are saying the only right way is to swap the cam or get special ECM programming ($$$) or it could lead to problems down the road, especially in passing emissions testing. I agree with their logic, but this project has gotten a little out of control. I'd love to have my Bronco running again by the end of May, but again I'm afraid I'll have regrets if I don't cover all of my bases.

Those that have done a MAS Air EFI swap to a non HO 302, please tell me it will be worth it in the end. I've seriously contemplated just trying to sell everything and get out of this project. My friends think I'm nuts to do this and even Chuck at BC questioned my wisdom when I asked for his opinion. Half the fun in owning my Bronco is doing things like this and if it turns out the way it's supposed to, it will be a much better trail rig in Colorado.

 

[66horse]

I did not even swap pins. Runs great. No problems.

I did this on the advice of an expert. I was intending on having a special harness made to accoomdate the nonHO firing order but was told not to that it will be fine. Get a regualr harness, swap cam later.

I am totally happy. EFI is an easy swap. If you are unhappy and decide to change cam, about all you have lost in time and effort is swapping intakes. Think about it.


Steve

 

[casadejohnson]

Do you even need to remove the grill? I swapped cams several years ago in my 351W and I know that I did not remove the grill. I just took out the radiator.

 

[tflack]

Do you even need to remove the grill? I swapped cams several years ago in my 351W and I know that I did not remove the grill. I just took out the radiator.

I have never seen one removed without at least taking a bar out of the grill and welding it back in (or not). Or the other two previously stated methods.

 

[casadejohnson]

I have never seen one removed without at least taking a bar out of the grill and welding it back in (or not). Or the other two previously stated methods.

Well, I know it can be done. I replaced mine in the vehicle several years ago and I have never had my grill off. I even double checked my Ford Shop Manual and they mention that the grill only needs to be removed on the Econoline vans to pull the cam. Maybe Mine is the exception to the rule. I read a thread yesterday about how Ford hand welded the parts onto the frames. Maybe my motor mounts sit back slightly further than most.

 

[musetech]

66 with a 289. That thing wasn't coming out without dropping the clip or pulling the engine. Even with pulling the motor mount bolts and jacking the engine up as far as possible in an attempt to clear the core support rather than going through the radiator opening. Measure the length of the lifter valley (intake length) and then available space in front of the engine and it will tell you if it is possible or not.

Hindsight 20/20, pull the engine. Especially if you have a nice paint job. If a repaint isn't in the works, make sure you cut the sealer in the seam of the grill so that the paint doesn't pull off with the grill.

With the engine out it saves your back a little as well.

 

[SaddleUp]

When I had my 5.0 (Non-HO) in mine I ran it with the injector firing order changed and without it changed. Both ways it ran about the same. In fact I think it ran a little better when it wasn't changed. I.E. With the MAF ECM pins going to the cylinders as designed irregardless of the firing order. I know that others will tell you there is a certain way it has to be done. I too was told I need a chip or tweecer for mine to run right with the Mustang MAF system on my 5.8 engine. I'm perfectly happy with it as is though. After about 5000 miles there is still no indication that is is running lean (which is what I was told would happen). My suggestion would be to go ahead and try it the way it is (without changing the pins) and then go back later and change the cam if it turns out that you can't get it to run well without it.

 

[COBlu77]

I thought I'd give an update. I received the 351w cam from Summit yesterday, and with some reservations dug into it today. I took the grill off instead of pulling the motor. The grill was real easy to get off (30 minutes tops). The paint did not suffer. The cam was definately not coming out without the grill off. It was about 1 inch short. The worst part was draining the radiator and getting coolant all over the place.

After about 5 hours of work, I have everything apart without incident, the old cam/lifters out and the new cam ready to go in. It was a lot easier than I thought it would be. Now the hard part comes. Getting everything cleaned up and back on with no leaks. My only regret so far is that I didn't buy one of those E-bay stainless steel fastener kits. My old bolts are pretty sad.

Thanks for all of the advice!