Cheaper Than Therapy: A Build Thread

[nvrstuk]

I was hoping you were upright after all these months!!

 

[jmhend]

Very nice


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[904Bronco]

Sounds like you are Knee-deep and buried with side projects...

 

[marjama]

Thought I'd post an update since I actually did something Bronco related yesterday.

If you've kept up with this (slow!) build thread, you probably know I'm also working on a '69 F100 that has me a bit sidetracked. It had a '69 351W in it that had been rebuilt at some point, but it smoked like crazy...and when I tore it down not only was a valve seat completely missing, but it was clearly tired and didn't look to have much rebuild potential. So, I was struggling with what to do. I had a perfectly good 331 sitting in the Bronco that wasn't being used, but then what? I've been keeping an eye out for deals, and also considering a Coyote swap...then I ran across a local guy selling a brand new engine built around the Ford Racing 363 short block. Decided to go ahead and pick it up! 331 is moving to the F100, and the 363 is getting dropped into the Bronco.

Ford Racing M-6009-363 short block, 4 bolt mains...made for big HP
AFR Renegade 195cfm heads, 73cc (comp ratio should be ~9.6:1)
Full roller motor, custom grind cam (still waiting on specs - built for "FSB Bronco pre-runner")
ARP fasteners throughout
Came as pictured with intake and Holley Sniper distributor (which I need for the F100), a set of ceramic coated headers and the Milodon pan.
Supposedly should dyno at 500+ hp, but TBD on that claim.
Generally all good parts on the engine with a few mid-range choices.

Pretty happy about it overall now that I've torn it down a bit. I do have some concern about it being geared a bit too much toward higher RPM use, but we'll see where the cam data comes back.

I was seriously considering the Coyote swap, but I wasn't excited about 'starting over' on anything it might impact. A 351W based stroker was also on the table, may have been do-able, but this deal was a bit too good to pass up and didn't require any real changes to the current build. I definitely don't need more stuff to do I need to get both of these projects rolling.

Now, the F100 is getting a Sniper system installed. What should I do on the Bronco? Stick with the factory Ford SEFI + GT40 setup, or something else?

 

[nvrstuk]

Thought I'd post an update since I actually did something Bronco related yesterday.

If you've kept up with this (slow!) build thread, you probably know I'm also working on a '69 F100 that has me a bit sidetracked. It had a '69 351W in it that had been rebuilt at some point, but it smoked like crazy...and when I tore it down not only was a valve seat completely missing, but it was clearly tired and didn't look to have much rebuild potential. So, I was struggling with what to do. I had a perfectly good 331 sitting in the Bronco that wasn't being used, but then what? I've been keeping an eye out for deals, and also considering a Coyote swap...then I ran across a local guy selling a brand new engine built around the Ford Racing 363 short block. Decided to go ahead and pick it up! 331 is moving to the F100, and the 363 is getting dropped into the Bronco.

Ford Racing M-6009-363 short block, 4 bolt mains...made for big HP
AFR Renegade 195cfm heads, 73cc (comp ratio should be ~9.6:1)
Full roller motor, custom grind cam (still waiting on specs - built for "FSB Bronco pre-runner")
ARP fasteners throughout
Came as pictured with intake and Holley Sniper distributor (which I need for the F100), a set of ceramic coated headers and the Milodon pan.
Supposedly should dyno at 500+ hp, but TBD on that claim.
Generally all good parts on the engine with a few mid-range choices.

Pretty happy about it overall now that I've torn it down a bit. I do have some concern about it being geared a bit too much toward higher RPM use, but we'll see where the cam data comes back.

I was seriously considering the Coyote swap, but I wasn't excited about 'starting over' on anything it might impact. A 351W based stroker was also on the table, may have been do-able, but this deal was a bit too good to pass up and didn't require any real changes to the current build. I definitely don't need more stuff to do I need to get both of these projects rolling.

Now, the F100 is getting a Sniper system installed. What should I do on the Bronco? Stick with the factory Ford SEFI + GT40 setup, or something else?

Way cool Marcus!! Progress, great deal, nice package for sure!!

Like you I haven't done much on my Shorty build but wheeling, travelling and spring projects kinda take priority for a bit.

Keep at it!!

 

[marjama]

It's a little sad when all of my project updates are many months apart...but I'm still here and I keep buying parts! I've been totally sidetracked, but I'm still collecting parts for the Bronco and creeping along on it. A few Bronco related things that have happened since my last update:

- Picked up a 2000 4r70w...made the decision to switch over from the 700R4 (soon to be for sale if you are local!)
- Ordered a new Atlas input shaft and shorty tailhousing kit (expected to ship sometime in January?)
- Picked up a Holley Hi-Ram intake for the 363 and various related parts
- Planning a switch from Ford SEFI to Holley Terminator X Max (more parts for sale!)

I'm still working on the '69 F100, and have also kind of started the Cummins swap into the '70 F250. Hoping the F100 sees the light of day again this spring! I'm not even going to guess when the Bronco might move again at this point!

I do have one other minor distraction. We're having a baby boy at the end of January! Can't recall if I mentioned that here, but it's super exciting/terrifying and I anticipate that it *might* cut into my free time just a little bit. We'll see. Probably not too surprising that one of the baby showers had a Bronco theme Lot's going on, but I'm sure having fun! I'll hopefully be getting back onto the Bronco at least part time in the near future.

 

[Yeller]

keep at it

Congratulations on the addition to the family!

 

[nvrstuk]

Congrats Marcus!!! Holy cow man- free time HAHAHAHA, you won't have any EVER AGAIN!! Think I'm exaggerating- think again.

Way cool news!

Glad things are moving slowly so you are used to that pace. lol


TerminatorX MAX is supposed to be the bomb! You'll love it!

You'll love 4r also. Full manual or full auto. Bug step from the 700r4.
The Holley controls it so that saves a ton of wiring & potential headaches.

You gotta be stoked!!!

 

[Yeller]

Brian’s right, as much as I love my 700r4 I’d go electronic controls if I could. Contemplated full manual but am lazy and too cheap to go electronic 700 is fine just general driving and wheeling but when ripping on it it shifts 1800rpm early and manual shifting is way to slow to react.

 

[marjama]

keep at it

Congratulations on the addition to the family!

Thanks Yeller!

Congrats Marcus!!! Holy cow man- free time HAHAHAHA, you won't have any EVER AGAIN!! Think I'm exaggerating- think again.

Way cool news!

Glad things are moving slowly so you are used to that pace. lol


TerminatorX MAX is supposed to be the bomb! You'll love it!

You'll love 4r also. Full manual or full auto. Bug step from the 700r4.
The Holley controls it so that saves a ton of wiring & potential headaches.

You gotta be stoked!!!

Haha - thanks Brian! I showed this thread to my wife and she just rolled her eyes (followed by saying how nice your reply was)! I've been trying to negotiate for guaranteed free time once the kid arrives. Pretty sure I told several people I'm going to complete the cummins swap during my paternity leave. I'm definitely not holding my breath! I'm still stoked for the whole deal though!

Using the Terminator X Max just seems like a no brainer. The Quick 4 controller was over $800 all in for the F100. The price for them has gotten nuts. When the X Max costs ~$1600 and includes trans control it's just a better deal. Not to mention that EEC-IV tuners are far and few between, but everyone seems to be tuning Holley these days. I may not be making a ton of progress on the Bronco, but I'm sure spending a lot of time thinking about it (and still spending money on parts)!

Brian’s right, as much as I love my 700r4 I’d go electronic controls if I could. Contemplated full manual but am lazy and too cheap to go electronic 700 is fine just general driving and wheeling but when ripping on it it shifts 1800rpm early and manual shifting is way to slow to react.

Totally my logic too - the 700R4 worked pretty well, but the ability to tune it electronically just made more sense. I figured that if I was going to make the change, better to do it now. With the short output on the Atlas the total drivetrain length will be just under an inch shorter than the 700R4. Now I just need Advance Adapters to ship out some parts (not holding my breath for that to happen soon...but we'll see!).

I just need to find some time to get to work (and stop only thinking about getting to work)!

 

[nvrstuk]

Marcus said "I just need to find some time to get to work (and stop only thinking about getting to work)!"

There ya go!!!


You need to call me or I can drive by, buy ya a beer and explain to you the reality behind "free time".

If you're building a house you can get out and work on your "house project" because it's for the family. Trying to convince the better half (that's not you buddy- it's your bride) that the Bronco needs you.... yeah, let me know how that goes! lol

I need to call ya and get all the details, this build is sounding fantastic!

 

[marjama]

Marcus said "I just need to find some time to get to work (and stop only thinking about getting to work)!"

There ya go!!!


You need to call me or I can drive by, buy ya a beer and explain to you the reality behind "free time".

If you're building a house you can get out and work on your "house project" because it's for the family. Trying to convince the better half (that's not you buddy- it's your bride) that the Bronco needs you.... yeah, let me know how that goes! lol

I need to call ya and get all the details, this build is sounding fantastic!

Did you say you have family down here? Swing by anytime...I'm sure I could use your wisdom!

The only reason I will ever get time to work on projects once the kid arrives is that my wife knows it's really necessary for me to 'work on stuff' to stay mostly sane. I did have the realization that literally all of my projects are 2 seaters - so I've been lobbying to buy another project that has four doors (or at least four seats). She's not completely against it, but I think I have to sell a project to buy a project. Regardless, that's totally a "family project", isn't it?!

Unrelated good news - my Advance Adapter order shipped! Might actually get to mock up the new engine / trans / t-case combo in the next month!

 

[nvrstuk]

Good news on AA coming up with a shipping date!

Yup, 4 seats and not too high off the ground unless you have 4 doors should work well for years!

I remember 31x10.50x15"s until the kids could climb in and out of the Bronco back seat and buckle up on their own!

My wife also understands the need for me to be creative and building something different. From log shop, log house, 60ft bridge, etc, etc.

I thank her for allowing me to be different and understanding it.

 

[sprdv1]

Totally my logic too - the 700R4 worked pretty well, but the ability to tune it electronically just made more sense. I figured that if I was going to make the change, better to do it now. With the short output on the Atlas the total drivetrain length will be just under an inch shorter than the 700R4. Now I just need Advance Adapters to ship out some parts (not holding my breath for that to happen soon...but we'll see!).

I just need to find some time to get to work (and stop only thinking about getting to work)!

LOL, you got this.. Been thinking bout switching out from my C4, but unsure just yet.. Nxt year

 

[marjama]

Well, I'm still alive and kicking...actually making pretty good progress on other projects AND I keep ordering parts for the Bronco. so I'm still on this. Big news though - our son decided to arrive almost a month early, so I'm currently on paternity leave from work and running on fumes. When I'm delirious I tend to spend money, so that's good right?

In order to move from the 700R4 to the 4R70W I had to modify the Atlas I was already running. I ended up deciding to go with the short tailhousing kit along with installing the correct input shaft for the Ford trans. (My 700R4 is for sale if anyone is interested in a full change over kit!). I believe I'll actually end up being about 1/2" shorter than my current drivetrain overall with these changes, so should be pretty low impact. I didn't take any photos of the final assembly, but you know what those look like.

I'm usually a very neat and clean worker...too many years of shock building and working in race shops to not be anal about it. I thought I'd share the disaster that was my workbench for a day or so though. Anyone else have a work space that looks like this (or, in my case a welding table)? I'm in over my head with projects - I have three car projects going on, two full engine builds in the works, and a newborn baby hanging around. I'm loving it though! (Also loving my wife for being so supportive of shop time!)

 

[marjama]

Also thought I'd post up these pics just in case anyone is contemplating this path - Holley Hi Ram on the 363W that will be going in the Bronco. It does look a bit nuts on it's own (esp with no valve covers!), but as soon as you see the GT40 with a 1" spacer that I was running next to it, it's actually not all that different in height. The Hi Ram is very tiny bit taller in the front, but moving the throttle body out front really helps free up space where I'm having some issues. May not solve them all, and I'm sure it'll create others, but we'll see when we get it back in the truck for more mockup. We'll see how my crossover tube works with the new intake soon.

I coated the engine block in Cerakote C-series Black Velvet. The previous owner had shot it with some junk paint. I've been testing the air dry Cerakote on a handful of parts for these various builds and I am really liking it. I've had a tendency to spray it on a bit heavy though and I'm getting a bit of solvent pop, but it really comes out nice. Need to practice a bit more before doing anything cosmetic!

Holley Terminator X Max has been ordered for the Bronco as well. Went with their P/N 550-944 which will also control the 98+ 4R70W. I've been patiently waiting for a sale and just gave up when I saw some of their authorized sellers start to raise pricing. No idea when this rig will be back up and running, but figured I'd better just get it here so I can plan around it.

 

[nvrstuk]

You've got the projects lined up!!

That intake does look HIGH. Great talking with ya and once again- congrats on your little one!

 

[sprdv1]

Well, I'm still alive and kicking...actually making pretty good progress on other projects AND I keep ordering parts for the Bronco. so I'm still on this. Big news though - our son decided to arrive almost a month early, so I'm currently on paternity leave from work and running on fumes. When I'm delirious I tend to spend money, so that's good right?

(Also loving my wife for being so supportive of shop time!)

Big congrats on the new addition.. And definitely be thankful for a good woman like that. Looking good

 

[marjama]

Thanks guys - the little one sure is a joy, but we'd be happy to get a bit more sleep

@nvrstuk ...finally found something that definitely isn't to the Ford spec on the 363. The ring gaps are not even close the Ford (or Mahle) spec. The Ford spec was .020 top, .018 second (both +.001/-.000). Top rings aren't terrible with most being around .022...one at more like .026. Second rings are all between .022 and .025. Guess they were in a hurry and / or didn't like the Mahle spec. Irritated to find it, but also not trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill. I'm probably just going to run them since everything I read says you won't actually notice it until the gap is more like .060++, and while I'm building a semi-silly engine, it's not that nuts. Rings gaps are much more of a big deal when they are too small!

I should probably post this to the main forum, but who are all of you going to for camshafts these days? Anyone running custom grinds? The 363 has a custom ground Crane in it that supposedly was intended for the FSB it was going into, but I'm not sold on it since it's a bit of a mystery. The 347 has an off the shelf Comp cam in it that I ran in the Bronco (as a 331), but it's going into a street truck (that is way more like a car at this point!). I'm thinking I should consider getting Ed at FTI or ??? to spec cams for both engines. I have a bit of an odd mix right now on the 363 with the hi-ram (that is really intended more for high rpm power, obviously), but I think it should work really well if it's built right given the airflow of the 363 + AFRs.

On a positive note, making progress toward getting the short block back together for the Bronco! I also spent time today trying to get the Cummins in the '70 F250 as well. I may be tired, but paternity leave hasn't been all that bad

 

[nvrstuk]

Ed builds my cams. Last couple were ground by Lunati for him (me).

End gaps seem "awfully big"... I have always gone with the old .004" per inch. EZ to remember (yeah, I check every manufacturers recommendations tho) lol.

Thanks for the info Marcus. I wrote a pretty long detailed email to Ford this am. No response yet. lol