Cigar Lighter + USB Issue

[Steve83]

You're just arguing to argue. None of the things on your list contradict, except the 3rd. The rest are independent of each other.

An air void in grease doesn't hurt anything. If there's a void between 2 metal electrical terminals, electrical grease (unlike dielectric) is thin enough to wick in & fill it. No contradiction.

Sand is what you find on the beach. It can be many sizes, or filtered down to essentially 1 size (very fine). That's what I think is in dielectric, but I can't prove it. I don't think it's in electrical grease, and I can't prove that, either. The "silica" used in most silicone greases (including dielectric) is fumed silica, which is VERY different from "sand". I don't know that it's in electrical grease - I don't see anything on the Ford website to indicate one way or another. No contradiction.

You said Ford electrical grease isn't silicone - I didn't argue with you, but that doesn't mean I've seen any proof of it. I didn't see it on the Ford site I linked, or in any of your links. If I missed it, post the relevant link one more time. Either way - that's not me contradicting myself; it's just me NOT contradicting you when you contradict me.

I already addressed electrical grease being dielectric - I don't know that it is or isn't, but even if it is, that doesn't make it "dielectric grease". Electrical grease shares SOME properties with dielectric grease - that doesn't make them the same.

The position that dielectric grease is bad for electrical terminals isn't "my" position - it's just one that I agree with. It's Ford's position, and Permatex's position, and probably every other chemical engineer's position. It's certainly the position upheld by every dictionary & encyclopedia that contains the word "dielectric".

AFAIK, electrical grease may be pure PAO oil, without fumed silica. That would make sense to me, since it's so much thinner than dielectric grease. I acknowledge that MOST greases are shear-thinning, but I suspect dielectric could be shear-thickening - particularly at the film thickness present in a dielectric application (between a SSD & its heat sink). Either way, I've never expressed an opinion on viscosity in-use vs. viscosity during application. I don't see how it's relevant.

I don't see how any of the tripe you keep bringing up is relevant. You're ignoring the simple plain-English definition of "dielectric", and the fact that Ford went to the trouble & expense of not only specifying electrical grease, but also having it produced, and then recommending its use in specific applications. If it wasn't better for electrical terminals, why did they do all that? Assume everything I've posted is wrong - then explain why electrical grease exists. %)

 

[bronconut73]

https://youtu.be/yuKAmaIkA-U


Pretty simple.

One of the first things they do is define dielectric grease.

Didn't watch the whole thing. I already knew what dielectric grease was.


It also says that applying "dielectric" grease directly to electrical terminals is the worst thing you could do.

Dielectric means non conducting.

 

[oldy1978]

https://infostore.saiglobal.com/store/details.aspx?ProductID=1518566
"The material defined by this specification is a NLGI Grade 2 polyalphaolefin based grease thickened with silica."

https://www.document-center.com/standards/show/FORD-WSB-M1C239-A
"Grease, Synthetic Hydrocarbon Oil, Silica Thickened"

http://standards.globalspec.com/std/1496306/ford-wsb-m1c239-a
"GREASE, SYNTHETIC HYDROCARBON OIL, SILICA THICKENED" & "The material defined by this specification is a NLGI Grade 2 polyalphaolefin based grease thickened with silica."

Now the following takes a small leap of faith since it's from Nye and not Ford but they do claim they developed Nyogel 760G for Ford and that it meets Ford's specification WSB-M1C239-A
From https://www.w8ji.com/images/Cars/Battery/NEW_8917_Marketing_WP.pdf
"While dispersions are suitable for small volume applications, cost and solvent recovery
often make dispersions impractical for large manufacturing operations. In the early 1980s,
with the advent of more sophisticated production line dispensing systems, connector
greases grew in demand. About the same time, broader temperature requirements and
material compatibility issues sent automotive OEMs and connector manufacturers looking
for new connector lubricants. Some automotive connector manufacturers had begun
lubricating female terminals with a petroleum-based, lithium-soap grease with a zinc
oxide fortification. Over time, the grease attacked connector housings, which started
falling off wire harnesses — an obvious safety, quality, and warranty problem. Nye was
asked to design a solution. We formulated NyoGel® 759G (Ford: ESB-M1C203-A; GM:
9985821), a soft, silica thickened, high viscosity synthetic hydrocarbon grease. NyoGel
759G offered plastic and elastomer compatibility, an operating temperature range of –40°C
to 125°C, and solved the problem caused by the petroleum connector grease.
Connector manufacturers then requested a stiffer version of NyoGel 759G to improve
production line injection capabilities. They also requested a connector grease with a
higher temperature capability and lower oil separation. Nye responded with NyoGel 760G
(Ford: WSB-M1C239-A; GM: 9986087; DaimlerChrysler: MS-9469). NyoGel 760G is a high
viscosity, silica thickened, synthetic hydrocarbon grease. Its stiffer consistency enabled
presses to run 30 to 50% faster and much cleaner. A new antioxidant boosted its
temperature limit to 135°C, and the addition of a UV dye facilitated quality inspections.
4
NyoGel 760G was also fortified to minimize corrosion of exposed copper substrate.
NyoGel 760G was originally used in tail lamp connectors but soon became the grease of
choice for ECM, EGR, air bag, starter, ABS, and more than 50 other connectors. Connector
manufactures use NyoGel 760G on terminal products as well as inside the housing, taking
advantage of the grease’s water and salt-water resistance to create an added
environmental seal"

https://www.neyco.fr/uploads/media/product/0001/01/50c4cb78140e0622bb3b596d212bf7eb2f8ccb42.pdf
"NYOGEL 760G
Copper Deactivator, UV Tracer
A silica thickened, medium viscosity, synthetic hydrocarbon grease for
lubrication and protection of electrical contacts.
Benefits include good water resistance.
Ford: WSB-M1C239-A, GM: 9986087, DaimlerChrysler: MS-9469"

 

[oldy1978]

Assume everything I've posted is wrong

Done

Electrical grease exists to make a profit for the company selling it. But that's probably not the answer you're looking for. Conjecture on my part but maybe they marketed electrical grease because technicians weren't using dielectric grease based on a misconception. Instead of explaining to every technician in every Ford garage that a non-conducting grease is desirable just specify this grease (that they supply and profit from.) But I have as much evidence of this as you have that dielectric grease is too thick to work.

Also, I have a package of Permatex dielectric grease that contradicts your statement on their position. I'll scan it but I doubt that will sway you.

 

[jw0747]

I'm here to nominate Steve 83 for the title of Master of Worthless and Useless B.S.

 

[oldy1978]

"Coat both parts of terminal contact with Dielectric Grease"

 

[Steve83]

So when Permatex contradicts itself in 2 documents, you assume both are true. When you imagine that I've contradicted myself (even though I haven't), you argue endlessly. Clearly, you just want to argue.

And your assumption about why Ford offers electrical grease is lazy, unimaginative, and contradictory, considering what you posted about Nyogel. So by your own logic, that means we shouldn't trust anything you ever have said, or that you ever say in the future. The reason is in TSB96-21-04 & TSB98-24-06, which you can find in this caption:



Or if you think I'm wrong:
http://www.revbase.com/BBBMotor/

Your links would be more-convincing if any of them a) were Ford, b) actually displayed the documents instead of just hinting at their content to try to sell access to them, & c) said what you claim they say. The 4th clearly DOESN'T say that Nye invented Nyogel for Ford, or that Ford electrical grease is Nyogel. Only that it meets several OEM specs. But since what you quoted specifically states that the issue was the PLASTIC CONNECTOR SHELLS and not the terminals, that makes 759 an assembly lube. 760 might be a decent electrical grease, but I've never seen it for sale, and I've never found it in the parts department of any dealership where I've worked, or where I've gone to buy parts & supplies.


And you're still doing a REALLY good job of ignoring the definition of "dielectric".


jw
If you don't comprehend the discussion, that doesn't mean you should troll it. Obviously, it takes at least 2 to discuss something, so oldy & Crush are just as responsible as I am for this discussion. But they at least are putting some thought & effort into clarifying what they think. If you don't appreciate it, you can stop reading this thread. But stop trying to interfere with it. It's not interfering with you bathing in dielectric grease, if that's what you want to do.

 

[oldy1978]

What other Permatex document are you referring to?

The first TSB 96-21-04 states to inspect the female connector for the generator (really something I'd expect any decent mechanic to do when a component tests bad)
The second TSB 98-24-6 just states Ford has a new grease.

Am I missing something in these TSBs you want me to see?

 

[oldy1978]

I've stated in my first post on this topic that it may seem counterintuitive but dielectric is actually what you want. The dielectric properties are what allow these greases to lubricate/protect without causing electrical shorts.

 

[Crush]

Give up oldy. He is like a dog with bone. Just let him think he is is all knowing and all of us are wrong

 

[oldy1978]

Did I mention I have an engineering degree (2 actually)?

 

[jw0747]

jw
If you don't comprehend the discussion, that doesn't mean you should troll it. Obviously, it takes at least 2 to discuss something, so oldy & Crush are just as responsible as I am for this discussion. But they at least are putting some thought & effort into clarifying what they think. If you don't appreciate it, you can stop reading this thread. But stop trying to interfere with it. It's not interfering with you bathing in dielectric grease, if that's what you want to do.

This forum is open for member viewing and you certainly don't control it. Tell us what happened over there on FSB.com to get you banned for life. Same stuff you're doing here?

 

[Crush]

Yep oldy. I have two myself. Safety engineering and safety management. I agree with ya. I think everyone is getting twisted around the axel about what the products are called instead of what they are for. I dont think he understands when someone is trying to tell him something. I am now a towboat captain on the rivers pushing barges. I am willing to bet he would argue with me that i operate a push boat instead of a towboat. In a previous post i told him he probably couldnt pass the exams to get a coast guard license to operate a towboat and he came back with " i know how to operate a boat". So he really doesnt comprehend our statements. I guess his mind is on tunnelvision. But whatever. Im not arguing with him anymore. I still use dielectric like i always have and it works and works well. Never ever had an issue of loosing contact or anything. Lol

 

[Steve83]

What other Permatex document are you referring to?

The screenshot earlier in this thread that said the grease is for connectors (as your w8ji PDF described) and not for terminals (as your packaging says).

The dielectric properties are what allow these greases to lubricate/protect without causing electrical shorts.

IDK where you're pulling that out of. There are a billion substances that have high dielectric constant, but are NOT good lubricants or corrosion inhibitors. The fact that these 2 greases are dielectric has nothing to do with their behavior on electrical connectors (the plastic shells). And although it doesn't impact electrical grease's behavior on terminals, it DOES with dielectric grease - that's why dielectric grease is the WRONG choice, and why electrical grease is the RIGHT choice.

No common grease causes shorts (conductive grease is rare), so that's a non-issue.

Everything else in this post is /topic:

Did I mention I have an engineering degree (2 actually)?

I don't, but I have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express a few times.

Am I missing something in these TSBs you want me to see?

The two in combination explain why & when Ford wanted something specifically for electrical terminals - not connector shells.

Give up oldy. He is like a dog with bone. Just let him think he is is all knowing and all of us are wrong

Are you talking about yourself? Because you're behaving exactly like you're accusing me of behaving. Except I actually read & respond to questions you ask me - you've just ignored all the ones I've asked that you don't have good answers for.

So he really doesnt comprehend our statements.

What I don't comprehend is why you think a towboat test qualifies you any more as an authority on the chemistry of grease than a pimply pizza-deliverer or an orchestra conductor. It's irrelevant. So is the size & function of the boat. I've never found a vehicle I couldn't operate, or a test I couldn't pass, so I have no reason to think a towboat is beyond my abilities. Does every other towboat driver you've ever met know the definition of "dielectric" & agree with you about its use? If not, what makes you think I'm less-capable than the worst of them?

This forum is open for member viewing...

...but not TROLLING; not to interrupt on-topic discussions, which is all you're doing.

Tell us what happened over there on FSB.com to get you banned for life.

That's not what this thread is for, or what this forum is for, or what this BBS is for. And it has already been posted at least 3x recently (duplicate posts by a troll, and in a caption that I posted) - if you can't read them, what good would it do to post it again? If you want to know, go ask there. And let me know what they tell you.

Same stuff you're doing here?

What - you mean participating in a technical discussion about a question by an eB owner trying to find the best way to make his eB work?

What are YOU doing here?

 

[oldy1978]

Hmm, yet you did find it pertinent to mention your father was a "successful chemical engineer".

You're going to have to relink to the reference that contradicts Permatex. If you're talking about the screenshot Crush provided, the same information can be found on the "Instruction" tab on Permatex's web page for dielectric grease. Link


BTW, Ford's 98-24-6TSB uses the phrase "ELECTRICAL CONNECTOR GREASE" the only mention of terminals is in the title and for the starter terminals every other reference is connector/connections.

The only real contradiction in references is in the SDS for Ford's Electrical grease which states it is a conductive grease.

 

[Crush]

And no one was talkin to you steve. I was talking to oldy. And i never said being a pilot qualified me to be a grease expert. QUIT PuTTING WORDS IN PEOPLES MOUTHS AND ONLY HALF QUOTING STATEMENTS WE POST SO THEY BETTER SUIT YOUR OPINION!!

 

[Crush]

Im not posting in this thread any more. When the shit hits the fan i dont want to be banned from here. Peace out!!

Hey oldy. If ya wanna talk some more l, pm me. Later

 

[oldy1978]

I'm not done yet. He might eventually see, he might not...but anybody else reading should be able to determine for themselves that Ford's XG-12 electrical grease is a less versatile dielectric grease.

 

[Crush]

Lol. u aint right!!!

 

[Skiddy]

This thread is so frustrating I just went out to the garage and stomped on my tube of "di"-electric grease.

Now I have grease all over the heal of my boot.
Where's my brake cleaner....


Sorry...just thought this thread could use a little comic relief....lol

LOL, what brand Nuke gauges do you all use?
then what type of grease should I use on the shutter or tube;D