clutch chatter.... yes another thread

[SDlivin]

Okay, and yes I did search, but that left more questions and possible solutions then I am willing to check at this point.

Manual 3spd, chatter has been getting worse and worse. To the point now that I don't fell too comfortable even driving it right now. Chutch pedal shakes like crazy at idle and when driving gets a little better, but even then I usually keep it depressed an inch or so just to shut it up...
351w, 4.56 gears.

Ridiculous chatter in 1st and reverse until thing get going. ONLY in 2wd HI, does not seem to affect 2wd LOW at all. In 2wd low can get rolling just by letting the clutch out slowly with no chatter to speak of.

Eventually will be replacing with a NV3550 transmission I have, but don't have the cash now for everything else needed for the conversion..

Thoughts?
Thanks.
-Robert

 

[Bronco73]

Have you checked for any loose or broken clutch connection pieces? Broken motor mount maybe?

Sounds like it might have a broken spring in the pressure plate causing one or more of the fingers to not be in contact? Just guessing here.

 

[half cab]

Are you running hard topless?

 

[TBS-POPS]

Did you lose your pedal return spring? That would be why pedal is noisy. Flywheel needs to be surfaced and a new clutch would prob solve the rest. Sounds like you'll have to live with it till your conversion if you don't want to spend the money. Riding the pedal doesn't make things any better.

 

[SDlivin]

Had a chance to check things out a bit more today.
Linkage all looks fine and has the clutch lever return spring.
Popped off the rubber boot that seals the clutch lever to the bellhousing and found a broken piece of metal in there. Looks like a small 's', maybe 1/4" wide.
definitely sounds like the bad noises are coming from within that bellhousing area.
I'll. Do some searching but anyone know off the top what that metal piece broke off of?

Thanks,

 

[TBS-POPS]

Small piece, thin spring steel, prob the clip that holds the throw-out arm to the bracket in the bell housing .

 

[SDlivin]

Small piece, thin spring steel, prob the clip that holds the throw-out arm to the bracket in the bell housing .

So would that be the cause of the problems I am experiencing, or just 1 of possibly several?
when at idle, not in gear, sounds like a hammer repeatedly in that bellhousing area. Like something is hitting something else. When I depress the clutch pedal it largely goes away, but is still noticeable.

Thanks.

 

[Bronco73]

Could be the clutch arm hitting on the bell housing opening if the retainer clip for it is broken.

 

[TBS-POPS]

So would that be the cause of the problems I am experiencing, or just 1 of possibly several?
when at idle, not in gear, sounds like a hammer repeatedly in that bellhousing area. Like something is hitting something else. When I depress the clutch pedal it largely goes away, but is still noticeable.

Thanks.

Could be the root of your problem that has gotten worse. Time to pull things apart.

 

[SDlivin]

Crap, was afraid that was where this was leading.

Figures though, since this is pretty much the last thing I haven't had to fix or replace or re-do from the po screws ups.

Any tips on removing tranny or as simple as remove drive shafts, then tc, then tyranny...
Crossmembers in there too of course.
Floor jack work okay as a tc and tyranny jack?

 

[broncosbybart]

I like to remove the t-case from the transmission for ease of handling. Support the thing by putting a jack up to the transmission itself. Once you get the crossmember removed, I remove the 5 bolts that hold the intermediate housing (what the crossmember bolts to) from the transmission and remove that with the transfer case as 1 part. Then the trans can be removed without all that hanging off of it. It will be heavier than the trans. The trans itself is fairly light.

I like to remove the bottom of the 5 bolts first and let the transmission drain while removing driveshafts, etc. You can drain the transfer case if you want, but it isn't absolutely necessary unless you want to do it and does help limit the potential mess if it gets turned upside down for some reason. The trans will begin leaking fluid as soon as that lower bolt is removed, so have a drain pan handy.

Be sure to check the flywheel when it is apart. My guess is that it needs to be replaced. I don't like to have them cut if they are not in good shape to begin with. A nice diaphragm style pressure plate style clutch would be the ticket. Plan on driveshaft failures or rear axle problems if it isn't addressed.

 

[SDlivin]

Okay, got everything out, and I do mean everything.
that piece of metal was 1 of the clips on the throw out bearing. So the clutch lever wasn't really clipped to the tob, so I believe the tob was resting on the pressure plate levers.
in addition the clutch is almost out of material.
flywheels looks good, but will have a shop check it and resurface if needed.

Looking at the wh centerforce ii clutch kit, diaphragm type, with new tob and pilot bushing.
other then getting a new seal and gasket kit to finally stop my d20 tc from leaking,
Anything else I should address or look for since it's all apart.

Thanks!

 

[bad 68]

when you do your 3550 conversion you will re use the release bearing and pressure plate. Disc and pilot bushing will be replaced so it's not a complete waist of money to do the clutch job now.

X2 on buying a brand new flywheel. They usually come with new starter ring gears, and will keep you from wanting to kick the machinist in the nuts if you still have chatter after he surfaces your old one for half the cost of a brand new flywheel.

 

[bknbronco]

I took mine down in two parts. Part 1 was the t-case and adapter, and the 2nd piece was the 3 speed. Just make sure that when you pull the t-case adapter apart from the 3-speed that that trannie output shaft dont slide out of the trannie! If it does (like mine did) youll have to disasemble the trannie COMPLETLY! Its not the end of the world but if the shafts stay where the supposed to then youll save yourself a days headachs!

I know you got your out already but this is for future refenence for other guys.

Be sure to check the flywheel when it is apart. My guess is that it needs to be replaced. I don't like to have them cut if they are not in good shape to begin with

My guess is your flywheel is fine and just needs to be ground. I had mine ground at a local driveline shop for $30. They use a diamond stone to surface the flywheel. And i put in a cheep "old school" 3 finger type clutch and its just fine. I dont think you will notice any difference in them expensive clutches, mine was around $120, but its your money.

Also make sure you dont paint any of the mating surfaces on the motor, bell housing, inspection plate, trannie, or t-case. Any paint could make your chatter even worse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Also chatter could stem from the bellhousing being off center???? i clocked mine and it was off a tiny bit but i didnt want to fix it and just installed as is.

 

[SDlivin]

Okay, having the flywheels resurfaced at a local machine shop today, guy remarked that it looked new, so I expect it to come out fine.

Couple other questions.
Any reason to not re-use all the existing old bolts, or should some be replaced?

Old three lever clutch pressure plate had 2 bolts per mounting tab (3 tabs, 6 bolts total) to mount to flywheels.
New Luk clutch kit has 3 bolt holes per tab, 9 total. Existing flywheels has a lot of bolt holes, but only the ones that were previously used are threaded to receive bolts.
will I be fine only using 2 of the 3 bolt holes per tab to mount the new clutch kit to flywheel)

Hope the above makes sense...

In the meantime I will be cleaning off the mating surfaces of the various parts, as directed. I noticed some paint etc on some of them.

 

[bknbronco]

i think nowadays everythig is made to fit many applications so use as many holes as fit and call it good