Coolant leaking bad, water pump questions

[Bradsp8]

1975 Sport, stock 302, 80k miles.

Seems to have developed fairly quickly, probably over the last 50 miles or last couple short weekend trips. Noticed my overflow bottle is empty and wet spot on the ground where I stop, hit reverse and back into garage.

Coolant leaking and dripping at a pretty fast rate from what looks like the pulley below the water pump. Stops when shut the engine off. I thought it was the lower radiator hose where it attaches to the water pump but I tightened it up and still leaking. I’m guessing the water pump is leaking and dripping down on the pulley below it but I can't stay under there long enough to see where it's coming from as the dripping coolant and fan blowing coolant all over me and my glasses/goggles. I wonder if it's my water pump gone bad or a seal to the water pump that's gone bad.

1. What are the best methods to test and diagnose the issue?

2. How difficult is it to replace a water pump?

3. If I do attempt to replace water pump is it true I might as well do the timing chain while I'm in there?

4. How big a job is it to do timing chain and water pump for someone who has never done either?

 

[savage]

Your water pump has a weep hole, under the pump by where the pulley bolts to. Here's a site that talk's about the weep holes http://www.flowkoolerwaterpumps.com/info/common_waterpump_failures.html Did you look at the thermostat housing to make sure it was not leaking their and check your heater hose connection above the water pump.

 

[Bradsp8]

Yes, thermostat housing looks ok, small right angle bypass hose looks ok, upper radiator hose looks ok, lower radiator hose looks ok. Will go back and look again at heater hose connections and also see if I can find weep hole.

Thanks for the suggestions.

 

[SteveL]

Do you hear any noise? With engine off see if pully/front pump shaft feels loose. If so pump may be going. Radiator cap and t-stat are the cheap and easy fixes when troubleshooting.

 

[DJs74]

1975 Sport, stock 302, 80k miles.

Seems to have developed fairly quickly, probably over the last 50 miles or last couple short weekend trips. Noticed my overflow bottle is empty and wet spot on the ground where I stop, hit reverse and back into garage.

Coolant leaking and dripping at a pretty fast rate from what looks like the pulley below the water pump. Stops when shut the engine off. I thought it was the lower radiator hose where it attaches to the water pump but I tightened it up and still leaking. I’m guessing the water pump is leaking and dripping down on the pulley below it but I can't stay under there long enough to see where it's coming from as the dripping coolant and fan blowing coolant all over me and my glasses/goggles. I wonder if it's my water pump gone bad or a seal to the water pump that's gone bad.

1. What are the best methods to test and diagnose the issue?

2. How difficult is it to replace a water pump?

3. If I do attempt to replace water pump is it true I might as well do the timing chain while I'm in there?

4. How big a job is it to do timing chain and water pump for someone who has never done either?

As mentioned, sounds like the classic symptoms of a failing water pump and coolant is coming out of the bottom weep hole.

IMO, there is not a direct relationship between changing the water pump and the need to replace the timing set unless you know the miles are high, are having clacking/rattling noises in the timing chain area, poor performance and/or are seeing timing fluctuation for no apparent reason.

The water pump change is not too difficult and can be done with normal wrenches, sockets and hand tools in general. You will need to drain all the coolant, remove the fan shroud (if equipped), fan, belts, hoses, possibly accessories if they are in the way of getting to the water pump. Depending on how much room you have, you might be better off and safer to remove the radiator just to avoid possibly damaging it during the procedure - the radiator is pretty fragile and can get punctured with minimal effort while wrenches are moving around it.

The timing chain set is quite a bit more involved to remove and even more critical to be reinstalled correctly - the engine relies on the chain set to time the crank and camshaft. If you decide to replace the timing chain set - you'll need to remove the crank pulley and harmonic balancer, the fuel pump, and the timing chain cover housing. The timing chain cover also has bolts running up vertically from the oil pan and into the bottom of the timing chain cover. For this, you'll also need a harmonic balancer puller.

All of the engine bolts have specific torque values but in this particular job, the camshaft gear is very important to properly torque.

Gaskets / seals:
Usually, the new water pump will come with a new gasket. If you go beyond the pump and tackle the timing chain set, you'll also need additional gaskets for the timing chain cover and fuel pump. The timing chain cover has a shaft seal that is press fit into it that seals the crankshaft and a separate gasket / seal between the oil pan and timing chain cover. You will need to plan for all of these seals if you replace the chain set. The old shaft seal and the oil pan seal might be able to be reused unless they are damaged during the teardown.

Do you happen to have an engine repair book? If no, I recommend to purchase one and read up on everything ahead of the job but in particular, the water pump & timing chain replacement. I use HP Books by Tom Monroe, "How to rebuild Small Block Fords" All of Tom Monroe's books are very detailed and give great information with photos.

If you decide to replace the chain set, there will be period of time where the front of your oil pan will be open and exposed (the timing chain cover covers this area). You might cover this area up with a rag or something just to avoid the potential for anything falling into your oil pan while you are working on it. That includes, nuts, bolts, a small wrench or even little pieces of trash / old gasket material / etc.

Good luck,


DJs74

 

[B RON CO]

Hi, X2. Grab the fan (engine off of course) and see how much the fan wobbles. If it is flopping around the pump bearings are shot. I would look for the weep hole with the engine off. It will probably be wet. I would only fix what is broken, maybe belts and hoses if they are a few years old. Good luck

 

[Bradsp8]

Thanks for the reply. I do have the '75 FORD Dealer Repair Manuals and they make the water pump sound somewhat basic. Lot of labor draining coolant, removing hoses and belts, removing radiator, etc... but doable. The timing chain sounds like a little more than I want to get into at this point. Space is so tight I do think removing the radiator will be necessary to be able to move around with wrenches and ratchets. Unfortunately I have smog pump and power steering pump that look like they are possibly in the way.

 

[Slowleak]

I agree with just doing the pump. Its not a difficult procedure but don't be surprised if you run into some issues with rusty bolts. Some water pump bolts go thru the water jacket into the block and have been thru a lot of heat cycles. I had two break off the last time I did a pump. Take your time and label them so you know which bolt goes back into which hole. I always put anti-seize compound on the threads. Oh, make sure you don't put the fan blade on backwards!

 

[Gordys74]

A little trick I use with getting the bolts back in correctly is I take the new gasket and lay it on a piece of cardboard and trace it onto the cardboard holes and all. Then punch out the holes. Now when removing the bolts, place them into the correct hole in the cardboard. Just takes the confusion out of bolting the pump back on.

 

[Rustytruck]

An issue to watch for with 1974-1977 there are 4 different water pump lengths depending on emissions equipment and pulley sets. make sure you compare your old water pump length with your new pump. Unfortunately most of the odd ball pumps are not stocked so be prepared you may have to wait for a pump. its also better to buy a new pump than a cheap rebuilt pump. The V belt load is hard on the bearings and the 289/302 water pump is a pain in the butt to deal with. In addition to using anti seize on the bolts I smear a thin coat of silicone on the shanks of the long bolts that go through the timing cover to stop the bolt shank from rusting.

 

[Bradsp8]

Thanks for the suggestions and insights especially the four various water pump lengths from 74 to 77

 

[blubuckaroo]

Does it look like the timing cover has ever been off?
If not, I'd plan on replacing the timing chain. You won't have a better opportunity if you're already replacing the water pump. And it's time.
I replaced mine at 80K and most of the nylon cap was missing from the cam sprocket.
If you want to make the whole job lots easier, pull the grill off. It's usually pretty easy. It may sound like it just adds to your work, but you'll be glad you did. I fought that tight space many times before someone suggested it to me.

 

[blubuckaroo]

A little trick I use with getting the bolts back in correctly is I take the new gasket and lay it on a piece of cardboard and trace it onto the cardboard holes and all. Then punch out the holes. Now when removing the bolts, place them into the correct hole in the cardboard. Just takes the confusion out of bolting the pump back on.

That's a great idea!
I found some of the front bolts to be almost the same length. Almost for a reason. They need to go back to where they came from or you can have some bolts with not enough thread engagement and some that bottom out.