Crawler Options For the NP205

[jerry74explorer]

I am planning to use an NP205 behind a C6 in my 74 that I am converting to an all one ton drivetrain. ;D The only BIG issue is that the 205 only has a 1.96:1 crawl ratio. So now I am looking at options to make the crawl ratio better. The 3 ways that I see are the KluneV / a doubler 203/205 / wait for lower gears down the road. The KluneV looks like the best option for crawl options and length since it looks like it would shorter than the Doubler. I wanted to get some input on these options and wanted to see if anyone knew if the KluneV setup is definitly shorter than the Doubler setup. Also wanted to see if I put something this long C6-KluneV-NP205 am I going to have to move the Rear Axle back?<br>Thanks<br>Jerry

 

[TahoeBRONCO]

i bought a 205 for my ground up 69 project,but after <br>taking some measurements,i'm not seeing it work out too well.<br>is yours in ? looks to me like notching the frame is the only<br>way to keep things lined up.<br>word is wms is about to realease 3.15 to 1 gears soon!i don't know their no.<br>i was planning f-150 r.springs/ 3"farther back.<br>i have the c-6 attatched to my np-205, it's a bb housing though.<br>i was thinking 435-205-4.56gears<br>6.68x3.15x4.56= 96 to 1 not bad for crawling!<br>just wonder if those gears are gonna be cheaper than a klune or 203 doubler.<br>nice thing you'll never break a 205. tb

 

[jerry74explorer]

I haven't gotten the 205 yet but have 2 sources. I have read that you have about 1/2" clearance on the drivers side, just don't know if that was accomplshed by dropping the tcase down or if it just fit. I just heard about the F150 spring lift but haven't had a chance to look into it, do you have any links handy? Also does the coverstion to the F150 springs move the axle back or are you planning on relocating the springs further back??<br>Thanks for the help.<br>Jerry

 

[TahoeBRONCO]

i'm no computer habla <br>sorry<br>pirate 4x4 search will get you the info you seek.<br>tahoe bronco thread about 2 weeks back.<br>my mesurements tell me i need 1/2" at the frame to keep <br>from wedging the ass end of the driveline for the 205.<br>mike ladd 530 342-2003=f-150 set up the easy way.<br>when it's easy it usually cost more.<br>tb

 

[rednck21]

ive got the klune v setup in my 74 with a d20. id like to swap a 205 in but the advance adapter to convert to a 205 is like $400+! the klune adds only about 4 inches in length. its a pretty compact setup. think i might just get the high dollar output shaft from A.A. $$$ ive heard they havent broken one yet!! let me know if you come up with anyting. ;D

 

[jerry74explorer]

rednck why not use a stock ford adapter for the 205, thats what I plan to do. As soon as I figure out if I have room for some sort of doubler. <br><br>I wonder if you could "cheaply" adapt a Cold Duck to the np205 and how much strength, if any, would you lose. <br><br>I guess that I have to call bent n twisted, their site has almost no information, none at all about the F150 setup and though I read those links Tahoe I would still like to see how this mod is done (know of any pictures?) & if it alone moves the rear back the 3" that you said you were moving yours back or if you were moving the entire spring setup back to achieve this...<br><br>Thanks

 

[jerry74explorer]

OK here is another (possibly stupid) question. In the Doubler Case 203/205 setup is it in this order:<br>C6 / ford adapter / NP203 gear box / custom adapter / NP205 <br>or<br>C6 / NP203 / custm adapter / np205<br>I was reading on WH's site that their crawler setup (using the NP203 gear box & D20) only added 7/8" Just trying to figure out how. <br><br>Sometimes I wish I had more time during the day to give some of these places a call!!!!!!!!!!<br><br>Thanks for any help on this!!<br><br> ;D

 

[TahoeBRONCO]

i am having a similar dilemma.<br>looks like the 205 will fit,but the t/c mount won't.<br>from what i understand the f150 springs are longer<br>and require costom mounts.<br>i see why you need the added wb because the c6 is alot <br>longer than a 435

 

[lars]

[quote author=jerry74explorer link=board=5;threadid=8972;start=0#64356 date=1031809488]<br><br>I was reading on WH's site that their crawler setup (using the NP203 gear box & D20) only added 7/8" Just trying to figure out how. <br><br>[/quote]<br><br>That's 'cause the WH setup is intended to go behind an NP435. The doubler replaces the adapter normally used to connect the NP435 to the D20. Spendy but a fairly compact setup. Trouble is you still have a D20 with its wimpy output shaft.

 

[jerry74explorer]

I took a long lunch to make some calls today and have made up my mind to just install the 205 for now and wait for the 3:1 gears that are supposed to hit the market in the next 6-8 months. If I decide down the road that I need lower gears than that then I will just have to convert over to the the NP435 standard and give up the auto!! Oh the things I could do with unlimited money!!!<br> ;D

 

[bent70]

I'd go klune. If you had a 435 the klune would replace the intermidate housing between that and the 205. You also need a 1in. spacer between the klune and 205. It ends up being the same lenght as before with the intermidiate shaft in there. <br>I'd check the klune site and it should tell you what is needed to bolt up to a c6. If your in luck it may end up the same lenght.<br><br>f150's move the axle back 2" or 6" flipped<br>bronco II's move the axle back 3" or 5" flipped.

 

[67halfcab]

Why not save some headaches and just spend the money on a 4.3:1 Atlas T-Case?

 

[jerry74explorer]

The atlas would cost at least a grand more than I have to spend... :'(<br><br>

 

[rjlougee]

I've done a bit of research on this subject myself, as I figure out exactly which tranny/transfer combo I want to put in my trial rig.<br><br>I have installed a C-6 and NP205 into the EB and had a hard time ensuring there was enough clearance between the front driveshaft and the C-6 tranny pan, when using the 205. I don't think you can RELIABLY get one to fit in there with ZERO interference problems. That is the main reason Phil had to drop out of the Baja race last year, couldn't keep them apart.<br><br>With an auto I think you need much less of a low range, since you've got the torque mutliplication of the torque converter, usually around 2.5:1. I think the WMS gears would be a good start, as long as you keep the front driveshaft away from the pan.<br><br>The MWS website says they do have the 3.1:1 gear sets available for the 205, here's the link:<br><br>http://www.wagonermachine.com/new_products.htm<br><br>I haven't called and checked availability, might be worth a call.<br><br>As long as you're going 1 ton drivetrain, don't forget to get the bigger 1350 U-joints on the driveshafts.<br><br>A C-6, doubler and 205 would probably leave you with a rear driveshaft in the 24" range, pretty short if you haven't moved the rear axle back some. I moved mine back 3.25", using the stock National Springs, by relocating the spring hangers. That's also on my site.<br><br>I've pretty much decided I'm going to run a 435/doubler/D20 in mine. Final crawl ratio should be 160:1. With 38.5" TSL SXs that should be good. Here's a link to how I'm doing it:<br><br>http://pages.prodigy.net/rjlougee/203.html<br><br>Advance Adapters is also offering some incentives this month, so if you have a buddy who's a dealer he should be able to get you an Atles 3.8, with the HD front output shaft for under $1800. That's a screaming deal. If you don't know one, email me direct and I can turn you on to one.<br>Joe

 

[jerry74explorer]

OK now this brings up another problem. I am assuming that you had clearance issues with the Dana 44, am I going to have more or worse clearance issues with a RC D60? It is a later model D60 that has the center section moved over futher to the Drivers side, don't know if that will help or hurt. This is the first time that I have heard that the driveshaft will have problems fitting. Much better to find out now rather than later. Are there any Transfer cases that will clear the C6 or should I now look into another Tranny??? I don't want to go back to a c4 been through 3 of them...<br><br>Damn glad I started this thread, cause if I had put all of this work into her and couldn't fit the drive shaft I think My head would've exploded!!!<br><br>Thanks Joe<br>Jerry

 

[rjlougee]

I was checking my clearance with a full width D44, so the axle yoke was about 3" closer to the drivers side frame rail than stock. It was close in there and I thought it would fit, but didn't think it would with stock D44. <br><br>I have a buddy who did run a C-6 on his, with a narrowed '78/9 series RCD60 and his is also close and he's using an Atlas. I believe it will fit. but we haven't been able to get it on the ramp yet to make 100% sure. Preliminary checkslook good, but it is close.<br>Joe

 

[jerry74explorer]

My front is an 87 D60 from an F350 and the center section is even further over to the left, but the driveshaft that I plan to use is the stock F350 cut to fit. I belive that the u-joints are 1350's but may be 1410's haven't gotten around to measuring the end caps. May have to move that one to the rear and get a custom one from tom woods or H.A.D. (guess I'll be putting more stuff up for sale on ebay this weekend.) <br><br>Does the Atlas hang lower than the 205? & can the pan on the C6 be modified to get more clearance?<br><br>

 

[bent70]

I'll check the clearance on mine with the h.a.d. shaft. You pinion yolk should be 2-3" more to the driverside right? Are you staying full width? I want to get and accurate guesstimate. ;D

 

[jerry74explorer]

Yes the yolk should be at least 3" to the drivers side. I am staying full width but I'm bringing the tires back in a little with hummer rims. May have to get either spacers or custom steering arms. I'm damn glad building it is half the fun!!

 

[bent70]

Here you go it shouldn't be a problem.<br>pics