Dana 44 Gear Swap

[Davesbronco]

I am interested in swapping gears in my Dana 44. I have some questions. I keep seeing thick gears and just gears advertised. What is the difference and how do I know what I need? I am going to a 4:10 gear if that matters. Also I keep hearing about having to bore something in the carrier of something to do the swap. What is that all about? Just wondering what all this stuff means and if I could possibly learn enough to do this on my own. I rebuild gearboxes for industrial reactor agitators regularly where I work and just wonder how much more it'll take. I have access to all types of machinery, equipment and tools but just need the know how I guess. Just a thought don't know if I would actually try it but you never know till you start asking questions.

 

[Daddy4zack]

A thick gear is needed if you are putting 3.73 and up on your carrier.. Or get a new Carrier for 4.10-5.88's.. The bolt holes in your old carrier are 1/2 inch and need to be drilled to 9/16th I belive,, to match your new thick gear. So you also need the new bolts to match..

www.Completeoffroad.com has a good selection of thick gears..

Does anyone have any reason on why NOT to use a thick gear?? I am thinking of going this way myself..

Aaron

 

[FSRBIKER]

There is a 4:10 thick gear available for those with stock 3:50 gears to use without having to change carriers, from what i have heard this is something they produced way back in WWII and at least one gear vendor still makes them.

 

[Davesbronco]

So I must use a thick gear on a 4:10 ratio. Is that based on design and fit or intended use of the vehicle? I guess I am asking is it just that a regular gear won't fit?

 

[FSRBIKER]

huh I noticed you can get gears up to 5:14's now in thick gears...good to know. I have the factory locker from a 3:50 Dana44 so that's the reason I will be using the thick gears.

 

[FSRBIKER]

What gear ration is in your EB now, if 3:50's then yes you must use the thick gears. Are you adding a locker as well?

So I must use a thick gear on a 4:10 ratio. Is that based on design and fit or intended use of the vehicle? I guess I am asking is it just that a regular gear won't fit?

 

[Steve]

So I must use a thick gear on a 4:10 ratio. Is that based on design and fit or intended use of the vehicle? I guess I am asking is it just that a regular gear won't fit?

Depends on what gears you have now. In D44 axles, there are basically two different sized carriers. One will use "regular" gears ratio 3.73 and down; the other one uses "regular" gears ratio 3.92 and up. So, for example, if you have 3.50 gears now, you cannot install a "regular" 4.10 ring gear on your carrier; it won't fit. You can put a "thick" 4.10 ring gear on a lower ratio carrier.

As for whether you can/should do it yourself, do you have access to a good dial indicating in-lb torque wrench, a standard ft-lb torque wrench and a dial indicator, at a minimum? You will also need to have or have access to a hydraulic press to press the carrier bearings on.

There are some good Dana axle gear install instructions here that should give you a good idea of whether to attempt this yourself or not.

 

[Davesbronco]

As for whether you can/should do it yourself, do you have access to a good dial indicating in-lb torque wrench, a standard ft-lb torque wrench and a dial indicator, at a minimum? You will also need to have or have access to a hydraulic press to press the carrier bearings on.

Yes I have access to all of these items and much more here in my shop at work. I am by no means a full fledged machinist, but I am competent on all of our shop equipment from the lathe to the end mill. We have three presses and a multitude of indicating equipment. Our folks let us use things as we need here in the shop as long as we take care of them first. Its a good setup that everyone gains from.

 

[SaddleUp]

Thick gears is just a good way to complicate the issue. Let's leave it off for a moment. The Dana 44 uses 2 different carrier sizes. The reason for this is that the thickness of the lower ratios is different from the higher ones by enough that it takes a different carrier for them to fit right. The split on the two carriers is between 3.92 and 3.93. For anyone with a stock carrier or stock limited slip (Ford never made a true stock locker) I would suggest changing carriers if you go over the split. Doing so keeps more options open.

Okay now for thick gears. Thick gears simply allow you to run a 3.92 and down carrier with 3.93 and up gears. The gears available are limited to only the most popular and there is only one company that sells them from what I could determine. IMO, the only reason to get thick gears is if you have an expensive locker already for the 3.92 and down ratios. When I say expensive I'm not talking about the stock Ford trac lock limited slip unit which most don't consider to be much better than an open carrier. (JBG sells the correct open carrier for $55 and the trac lock for $85)

 

[Davesbronco]

So I can run regular 4.09 gears if I change carriers. Right. But I can only run thick gears if I keep the stock carrier. Right. Why not Just change carriers? Complete offroad has an Open Dana 44 carrier for 3.92-5.89 for about $60.00. What would be the disadvantages to changing carriers?

 

[Steve]

So I can run regular 4.09 gears if I change carriers. Right. But I can only run thick gears if I keep the stock carrier. Right.

Correct.

Why not Just change carriers? Complete offroad has an Open Dana 44 carrier for 3.92-5.89 for about $60.00. What would be the disadvantages to changing carriers?

There is no disadvantage that I can think of to changing carriers. That would be my advice.

NOTE: Disregard this discussion for changing your rear axle gears, it's not an issue. That carrier will fit all available gears.

 

[Davesbronco]

Great. Thats what I will do then. How does $1300 to do front and back sound including parts?

 

[SaddleUp]

Great. Thats what I will do then. How does $1300 to do front and back sound including parts?

I normally charge $200 each end for doing gears and it usually isn't too hard to match the same price. The gears themself should run between $150 and $200 each set. Add $60 to that for an open carrier. That puts you somewhere around $800 (plus some for shipping) depending upon the cost of the gears. I would say $1000 is probably a fair deal including parts and labor. $1300 sounds high unless they are dropping in a locker or something in one end.

 

[FSRBIKER]

Great. Thats what I will do then. How does $1300 to do front and back sound including parts?

What kind of parts? What is the warranty on their labor?

 

[Steve]

If you add a master install kit to SaddleUp's numbers, which most shops will, that's another $75 or so. Shops around here charge $250-$300 per axle for labor; $200 is a real good deal. I'd do them for $200/axle as well but you're nowhere near me.

 

[SaddleUp]

FWIW, When I worked in a 4WD shop we never charged for a master install kit unless we were building up a differential from scratch. We only charged for any parts that were needed (Other than shims which we included in the labor). If a shop does charge you for a master install kit make them supply you with all of the old parts (bearings, seals, shims, etc.) afterwards. If they have a problem doing this then they are just trying to jack up the installation by including it in the cost when they probably will not actually be using it.

 

[NeverSatisfied]

I am interested in swapping gears in my Dana 44. I have some questions. I keep seeing thick gears and just gears advertised. What is the difference and how do I know what I need? I am going to a 4:10 gear if that matters. Also I keep hearing about having to bore something in the carrier of something to do the swap. What is that all about? Just wondering what all this stuff means and if I could possibly learn enough to do this on my own. I rebuild gearboxes for industrial reactor agitators regularly where I work and just wonder how much more it'll take. I have access to all types of machinery, equipment and tools but just need the know how I guess. Just a thought don't know if I would actually try it but you never know till you start asking questions.

I installed my first thick gearset a couple weeks ago. it was a 5.14 replacing a 3.50 carrier. The first hitch was I had to drill out the ring gear bolt holes in the carrier because the thick set used bigger bolts. Then I got it together and had a tough time getting the pattern right. I got it close, but it sure didn't look like a good set of DANA gears does when you get them right. I'd chalk up the extra 50-60 bucks for a new carrier, swap your guts from the old one and get a Dana gearset you like. It is not worth the headache

 

[scottmcwms]

Here is a great article for setting up gears.

Scott

 

[fordguy]

not to hijack but the trac loc is not better than open gears? my only concern in going thru mud no rock crawling so when i up my gear ratio to 4.30 or better trac lok would not be the way to go but instead open??:?

 

[SaddleUp]

not to hijack but the trac loc is not better than open gears? my only concern in going thru mud no rock crawling so when i up my gear ratio to 4.30 or better trac lok would not be the way to go but instead open??:?

If it is working like brand new then a trac lock is better than an open carrier in some cases. The trac lock though is a light weight limited slip unit that tends to wear the clutches out fast (Leaving essentially an open carrier) or that will not take much abuse without breaking. (I've seen several of them broken) Having one isn't really a good reason to run thick gears IMO because the cost difference is negligible between standard gears and another trac lock and the thick gears. I would guess the cost difference to be in the 30 to 40 dollar range since thick gears cost more and the correct series track lock only costs about $85.