did i fry my wiring or fuses?

[70sbudget]

So the other day i was able to start the bronco with the key. i had to fidget with the solenoid and figured out the large terminal next to the battery was bad/lose. without changing anything, today i tried to start it and just got a click with no action on the starter.

i changed to solenoid. With no s or i terminals on the old solinoid i was left to guess. is there a chance i could have blown the fuse as i had no power to the headlights, and no action on the solenoid or starter after turning the key. is there a chance of a bad solenoid right out of the box?

 

[Steve83]

You're talking about the starter relay, which is on the inner fender; not the starter solenoid, which is a part of a mini (PMGR) starter - not the original-type starter. Click this & read the caption:


https://www.supermotors.net/registry/media/870249 (for phone apps)

...i was able to start the bronco with the key.

Are you saying you HAVEN'T been able to start it with the key in the recent past, but the key worked unexpectedly that day?

...figured out the large terminal next to the battery was bad/lose. without changing anything...

You didn't even tighten or clean the loose terminal?

...today i tried to start it and just got a click with no action on the starter.
...no power to the headlights, and no action on the solenoid or starter after turning the key.

That's the classic symptom of bad battery terminals. Read all the captions in this photo album:


https://www.supermotors.net/registry/2742/69178-2

i changed to solenoid.
...is there a chance of a bad solenoid right out of the box?

Of course, especially if you bought a cheapo brand from a cheapo supplier. What did you buy, from where?

With no s or i terminals on the old solinoid i was left to guess.

Every starter relay has at least one small terminal. How about posting a pic of the old relay, the new one, and the wiring? It's free & easy if you follow these instructions:
http://www.supermotors.net/forums/thid-5972-how-do-i-post-pictures-sounds-and-or-videos

is there a chance i could have blown the fuse...

Of course, but it's not likely. And that would only apply if you had an aftermarket wiring harness with a fuse on the cranking circuit. So you need to FULLY-describe your truck in your signature so we can refer to it at any time to help answer your questions. Browse some of the other threads to see other users' signatures. Look for the long signatures to get an idea of what needs to be in there. A 5-word description is useless, but a photo album full of pics from all angles (inside & out, top-to-bottom) is priceless.

 

[Rustytruck]

A starter solenoid with the I and S terminals can be confused with an Isolation relay used mostly in boats and RV applications and even some winches that don't have the I and S marked terminals. So make sure you have the right part.

If you have it hooked up properly and you turn the key and get no sound at all at the solenoid you probably have the wrong part. Good parts will have the I and S terminals marked. buy good parts.

ford starter solenoids ground through the mounting screws to the body so make sure you have a good clean mounting screws to the body and no paint between the solenoid and the sheet metal to the body.

 

[Justafordguy]

If you have no headlights after you installed the new starter relay I bet you left off the fusible link wire from the large post that the main positive battery cable goes to.

 

[DirtDonk]

Yep, that. And all the other stuff too.;D
With stock wiring, there should be a Black wire on the starter relay where the battery cable attaches. If you left that off, no power anywhere.
If that wire's fusible link is blown (Like Steve said, there's no fuse on a stock harness for that) then you get no power either.
If you messed with that same wire under the dash recently (by the ammeter) it's connector might have come loose. Or it could be rusty and not conducting well. Either way, no power.

The smaller Red w/blue and the Brown wires can indeed get reversed, but if you do you will know right away. If you put the Brown wire on the "S" post, the starter will crank as soon as you turn the key to RUN.
If you only used the Red w/blue wire and put it on the "I" terminal however, nothing will happen. No click at the starter relay, but you will still have power to the lights and such.

And yes, as said too, it's definitely possible to get a bad relay brand new. Way too easy in fact. But it won't have cut the power to other things. Only the Black wire at the battery side can do that.

Or the main battery cables too, as Steve mentioned. If yours are old and crusty looking at all, replace them now while you're digging for answers. Even relatively new ones can fail internally. Had that happen myself to one that was less than three years old and looked perfect.

Anyway, that gives you some directions to look.

Good luck.

Paul

 

[70sbudget]

thx for the responses. all great info!

so the vehicle is a 1970 bronco. i just purchased it but most if not all of the wiring looks to be period correct. but so many things on the vehicle are different that ive found im not trusting anything to be stock. so the battery cables are new. battery to solenoid/switch/relay/four terminal thinimagigger. thinamagigger to starter. battery to block. block to body. all are brand new, including the battery. remember, this worked last week and the only change was the thinamigger.

so with that being the case and the solenoid/switch/relay/thingamaggigger being new, that is the only variable. as of now i have also replaced the crap thinamagger with one that the parts guy has had for years and has four mounted in line in his trunk to run his hydrollics with 47 amps going thru each one. dont ask!!!. however, it is heavy, doesnt rattle like the crap one did and it looked like the first one i took off.

battery to positive terminal, s terminal, i termernial and switch to starter terminal is the way it is layed out from front of the vehicle to back. i have battery cable going straight to it. then i have the red wire w blue stripe on the s terminal, brown/grey wire going to the i terminal and last, a battery cable going to the starter. i sanded the inner fender to bare metal before mounting the new thinamagger/switch/tormenter/relay and also purchased the washers that are cut and bite through paint for the exterior of the inner fender/inside the wheel well also.

however, i dont recall the black fusable link wire during the dissabembly. i will look for one next time i get out there. this would make perfect sense as to why there was no power to anything. i was tracing wires back to try and find a fusable link. but without success. does this fusable link wire go straight to the relay on the passenger fender and end there? where does it connect so i can be on the lookout for it in the future if i need to replace it?

hope you guys nailed it and im guessing so at this point. thank you!!!

 

[Steve83]

so the vehicle is a 1970 bronco.

That, and everything else about it, needs to be in your signature.

...to run his hydrollics with 47 amps going thru each one.

That doesn't say much. A cube relay can handle 40A.

however, i dont recall the black fusable link wire during the dissabembly.

This is why you should post LOTS of pics. If there have been wiring mods, it might not have one. Or it might be a different color; or in a different location. Someone here will recognize what's on your truck, but only if we can SEE it. That applies to EVERY part, so we can help you fill in your signature.

 

[Jamie Chriss]

70's Budget, I am going through this exact issues: I pulled my truck up the driveway, painted a few parts, messed with the A/T linkage, went to turn on the truck and there was just a click like the battery was dead. So I tried to jump the battery, nothing, charged the battery nothing. I went and purchased a new solenoid and still no power to the starter. Additionally I tried to turn the lights on etc but there was no light? I am stumped. I did try one thing, I took the jumper cable and did an end around from the battery to the right side of the solenoid and got the starter to engage...

 

[DirtDonk]

Did you get it figured out yet Jamie? Or are you still dealing with it?
AT least you know the battery is good, but an issue you face with trying to use the key is that, with no power to the lights or anything else, your key can't power the starter relay. So while you might think of it as a bad battery symptom, you're not getting power from the battery to the rest of the truck.

Only two areas can do this.
1. Either of the battery cables has failed, or:
2. The Black wire with it's fusible link and connector at the ammeter has failed or parted ways.

For the battery positive cable, you can do the jumper cable trick again, only this time connect from the battery to the battery side of the starter relay. Basically bypassing the battery cable.
Obviously be careful not to let them touch metal or other things, but if you now have power to the cabin (headlights, heater, etc) then you have a bad battery cable.

Same for the ground cable. Simply jumper the negative terminal to the engine and see if things change.

If the fusible link has blown, or a connector on the Black wire has come un-connected, you'll have to track that down.

Paul

 

[Jamie Chriss]

Dirt Donk you rock!! So I purchased new cables, battery, starter and engine ground cables. I will put them in tonight. My truck is vanilla with really basic wiring, if there is a fusible link I can't find it. The one thing I didn't try at the solenoid there are two small wire connectors on top, the left one is not snug, would that be a problem? I know this is so basic, my skills have greatly diminished since selling my last EB.

 

[Jamie Chriss]

Problem solved: bad postive cable and bad new solenoid!

Many thanks, Jamie

 

[DirtDonk]

I hate it when two problems sneak up on you at the same time!
Happens a lot with these old trucks too, when coupled with the crap parts we have to choose from these days.

My truck is vanilla with really basic wiring, if there is a fusible link I can't find it.

It's the lone large Black wire that's attached to the starter relay right there at/under/next to the positive battery cable. On a stock setup, it has two functions.
One is that it gets power from the battery to the rest of the truck when the engine is off.
The other is when the engine is running it is the path via which the current passes to recharge the battery.
The "other end" of this big loop of Black wire is the main charging wire from the back of the alternator. You'd be pretty familiar with that by now I would think!

The fusible link is simply the end length (and the end itself) of that Black wire where it meets the starter relay.
If it has not been replaced, it will simply be a good sized ring terminal with a molded block of rubber where the wire and terminal meet.

The one thing I didn't try at the solenoid there are two small wire connectors on top, the left one is not snug, would that be a problem?

Yes! The one on the left, which is the Red w/blue wire, is the one that actually energizes the starter relay and starter. So if it's loose it can give you intermittent no-start conditions. Or at the worst, no starting at all. No clicky, no starty.
So give it a quick squeeze if you have strong fingers, or a very careful gentle squeeze with some pliers if not.

Paul