Duffs drop track bar bracket install advice

[4x4man514]

Hey guys. I just got a new drop bracket from duffs for my bronco and I got a question for y'all.

The instructions state you need to drill a hole through the frame and then stitch weld all around the bracket

I know this would stabilize it greatly but I'm wondering how necessary it is? The reason I ask is I would have to disassemble a lot to accomplish this and as I'm almost done with a full frame off rebuild it would big a big step back. If I installed at the beginning it would be no biggie. My bronco already has a track bar riser and I am running 37s. There's no way this truck will see off road again and thus far (even though my geometry is not perfect) I'm not experiencing a bump steer problem.

Do y'all really think the extra bolt and all the welding is necessary?

Thanks!

 

[DonaldDouchebag]

You want to run a frame-side drop bracket along with a riser on the axle side? Don't think I've ever seen that but if was me I'd tinker with dropped or stock pitman arms to try and get my draglink in line with the track bar instead of doing a frame-side drop bracket on the track bar. That frame-side bracket does experience a lot of leverage and plenty of them have torn off so I would weld it.

How much lift do you have?

Have you looked at swapping the James Duff track bar riser on your axle for the taller Wild Horses one?

 

[DirtDonk]

Probably...
Do you have a link to the exact part you bought? I think they have multiple choices, so it would be nice to see which one you got.

Generally speaking, lots of brackets have been bolted and left that way, without welding. Very few of them have torn off the frame under modest use, but plenty of them have worked loose. It's an EXTREMELY stressed part.
But more than anything else, not welding a trackbar bracket usually results in wandering on the street, as the bracket flexes ever so slightly while driving.
Without seeing the bracket, I say go to the extra trouble now and weld it.
But not before you've mocked it up and verified that it puts your trackbar where you want it, and that it drives even better than before.

Paul

 

[Apogee]

I'm curious why you're doing anything to change the track bar geometry if you're not experiencing any negative handling aspects with the current setup? The whole bolt and weld seems a bit like belt and suspenders, since welding alone should suffice when done well. A bolt-on solution tends to require better engineering and design since the rectangular frame rails can be a bit "squishy" when it comes to fastener preload and such, hence the use of sleeves and tube spacers around the steering box, another frequent problem area for failures.

 

[DirtDonk]

Probably my recommendation to drop the trackbar for his lift, due to the mismatch between the bar and the draglink. Thread titled "squirrely ride" tells the tale.
Probably should just continue the trackbar bracket discussion in that thread, rather than starting a whole new one.

Tall lift (4.5" I think?) and a not-fun driving experience. Maybe it's not bumpsteer, maybe it's related. But we're trying to reduce the pucker factor while driving.
The drop bracket was one of the suggestions.

Paul

 

[4x4man514]

Probably my recommendation to drop the trackbar for his lift, due to the mismatch between the bar and the draglink. Thread titled "squirrely ride" tells the tale.
Probably should just continue the trackbar bracket discussion in that thread, rather than starting a whole new one.

Tall lift (4.5" I think?) and a not-fun driving experience. Maybe it's not bumpsteer, maybe it's related. But we're trying to reduce the pucker factor while driving.
The drop bracket was one of the suggestions.

Paul

Yea maybe I should have.

 

[4x4man514]

My bronco was a lot squirrelly. I removed my spring rockers and repositioned my shocks from inboard back to factory position and it got MUCH better. But not perfect. At higher speeds it wanders a bit. I'm thinking probably caster or toe is out but I haven't taken it to get aligned yet due to geometry being off. I haven't noticed any bumpsteer yet. I ordered the bracket to help but I'm a bit turned off to the PROPER way to install. Welding ruins my epoxy coated frame and drilling inside the engine bay gives me the eebie jeebies. No way I get that done without scratching some stuff up. If all that is truly necessary then I may just skip the install and get aligned with the bad geometry.

 

[4x4man514]

I'm curious why you're doing anything to change the track bar geometry if you're not experiencing any negative handling aspects with the current setup? The whole bolt and weld seems a bit like belt and suspenders, since welding alone should suffice when done well. A bolt-on solution tends to require better engineering and design since the rectangular frame rails can be a bit "squishy" when it comes to fastener preload and such, hence the use of sleeves and tube spacers around the steering box, another frequent problem area for failures.

Yea I think I'm gonna get it aligned and address the caster and toe issues before putting this on. Geometry is out but bumpsteer doesn't seem to be an isssue

 

[4x4man514]

You want to run a frame-side drop bracket along with a riser on the axle side? Don't think I've ever seen that but if was me I'd tinker with dropped or stock pitman arms to try and get my draglink in line with the track bar instead of doing a frame-side drop bracket on the track bar. That frame-side bracket does experience a lot of leverage and plenty of them have torn off so I would weld it.

How much lift do you have?

Have you looked at swapping the James Duff track bar riser on your axle for the taller Wild Horses one?

Honestly it's been so long ago I installed the riser I don't know which brand it is. I've ordered A LOT from whs so that's prolly what I have now.

Maybe I should investigate the pitman arm. I have the stone crusher steering links which flattened that angle a lot. Maybe too much

 

[DirtDonk]

In the other thread you did think a stock Pitman Arm would be more in line with your track bar. I did my usual mention of, it’s probably better to lower the angle of the track bar, then to raise the angle of the draglink. But it certainly can’t hurt anything to try. Stock Pitman Arm probably isn’t that expensive to find used. And it can always be re-corrected.
Definitely get the alignment done. Doesn’t matter where everything else is, as long as the toe-in is correct and you know what your caster is. Most alignment shops aren’t gonna touch your caster or cAmber. They’re only gonna tell you what it is and let you deal with the consequences.
If you’re lucky, you can find a place that will do the work.

 

[4x4man514]

In the other thread you did think a stock Pitman Arm would be more in line with your track bar. I did my usual mention of, it’s probably better to lower the angle of the track bar, then to raise the angle of the draglink. But it certainly can’t hurt anything to try. Stock Pitman Arm probably isn’t that expensive to find used. And it can always be re-corrected.
Definitely get the alignment done. Doesn’t matter where everything else is, as long as the toe-in is correct and you know what your caster is. Most alignment shops aren’t gonna touch your caster or cAmber. They’re only gonna tell you what it is and let you deal with the consequences.
If you’re lucky, you can find a place that will do the work.

That's prolly gonna be my plan but I do worry about finding a good shop around here. Nobody knows how to work on something old anymore. Thanks!

 

[DirtDonk]

You can certainly check with different tire stores to see if they have an old-timer working on the alignment rack. But probably your best bet is a dedicated alignment shop. Still with old-timers working the floor.

Anyone can give an initial alignment readout. You could go from there yourself.
Toe-in can be measured and adjusted in your driveway with very little hassle.
Camber and caster require lots of extra labor. That’s where newer shops and younger techs won’t know what to do.
And why the people that do know, charge a lot of money. Because camber and Caster adjustments take a lot of time.

 

[Torkman66]

I did exactly what you are doing and I did it after complete restoration, on a powder coated frame. I installed WH drop, bolted and welded. Was not a big deal. Did not have to take much apart. Able to get a grinder in to remove old bracket welded nut without removing anything but the tire. Installed new bracket with bolts, checked all geometry, then welded. I used grinder to clear off powder coat for welding. My mig on a very high hot setting was able to reach in no problem. Hit it with black paint. Done. You would never know it was done after complete resto. 3 hour job.

 

[4x4man514]

You can certainly check with different tire stores to see if they have an old-timer working on the alignment rack. But probably your best bet is a dedicated alignment shop. Still with old-timers working the floor.

Anyone can give an initial alignment readout. You could go from there yourself.
Toe-in can be measured and adjusted in your driveway with very little hassle.
Camber and caster require lots of extra labor. That’s where newer shops and younger techs won’t know what to do.
And why the people that do know, charge a lot of money. Because camber and Caster adjustments take a lot of time.

Yea I did set the tow in myself with angle iron bungied to the tires. I'm sure it's not perfect but I know it's close. Dunno how far out it's got to be to get the wandering issue.


I don't think I have ever seen a shop competent enough (or cared enough) to change out the c bushings for caster or any other type correction. Most wouldn't even try to correct camber (on a TTB(different truck) so I'd be happy to just know what I got. I have a stock 93 f150 2wd that I can't even get right at these shops around here.ive been asking around but it seems nobody around here knows any old school shops like you are talking about. We used to have one but that was prolly 20 yrs ago. Alot of that old timer knowledge has gone extinct.

 

[Torkman66]

I highly doubt you will find any shop that adjusts caster on an old Bronco. It’s a major job. Most just go to any alignment shop to get a digital readout of the numbers and then use that to determine what might be causing sloppy drive. I had to go to 8° caster to get mine to drive nice.

 

[4x4man514]

I highly doubt you will find any shop that adjusts caster on an old Bronco. It’s a major job. Most just go to any alignment shop to get a digital readout of the numbers and then use that to determine what might be causing sloppy drive. I had to go to 8° caster to get mine to drive nice.

Yea like I said even then it was asking a lot. I wonder if they can even measure it here.

What size lift are you running? It's been so long ago I don't even remember what c bushings I used. I thought 6 was as big as they made

 

[Torkman66]

I'm only on a 2.5 SL and 33s. Been a real head scratcher trying to figure out why it drove so squirrely. Finally ended up going to 8* caster and it took care of it. But prior to that, 7* wedges, 1.5* eccentrics, dropped pitman, dropped bracket, Hellwig Stab. Nothing really worked until I installed TRex adjustable arms. That allowed me to remove the eccentrics. If I was doing this again, would absolutely cut and turn.

 

[4x4man514]

Geez all that for a 2.5? So eccentrics? I'm guessing that's for radius arm bushings? Not sure I've heard the term. And what is a wedge? New to me also.

My old bronco had extended arms , I don't remember the degree of the bushings and the same lift and it drove fine. Not perfect but good enough.

I was under impression that the longer arms reduced the "sway bar effect" so that's why I didn't go that route.

 

[4x4man514]

I'm only on a 2.5 SL and 33s. Been a real head scratcher trying to figure out why it drove so squirrely. Finally ended up going to 8* caster and it took care of it. But prior to that, 7* wedges, 1.5* eccentrics, dropped pitman, dropped bracket, Hellwig Stab. Nothing really worked until I installed TRex adjustable arms. That allowed me to remove the eccentrics. If I was doing this again, would absolutely cut and turn.

And what do you mean cut and turn? The pads for the c bushings?

 

[DirtDonk]

Yes, longer arms, reduce the swaybar effect and allow it to sway more. But they are there for flex, so that’s expected.

Cut and turn means the ultimate in adjustment. It means you literally grind through the welds on the outer steering yokes at the end of each axle tube, rotate the yokes for caster, and re-weld them.
This is the only way to have both good caster and good angle on your pinion.

Eccentrics in our case, go at the top of each upper ball joint.
Depending upon how they are rotated, they can either adjust caster or camber. They’re intended for camber, but can do both.
They have a maximum range typically of 1.5 degrees. But are available in lesser offsets.

The C-bushings that go around the axle wedges come in 2, 4, 6.5 (Duff specifically), and 7° offsets.