Early Bronco parking brake ideas

[Pa PITT]

This thought may not be what your looking for BUT about 5 years ago .. We had this same discussion .. BACK then every one wanted the Jeep .. 96ish Jeep ZJ Handel . & adapt to your Rears ...
... I still haven't fixed mine.

 

[Crude dude]

My neighbors Discovery (Rover) has a drum brake on the back of his t-case. I didnt see that info from TSM about the second set of calipers, I will look that up. Seems like a good idea. This thread seems to have swerved around the Explorer brakes, is that kind of a weak setup?

 

[badmuttstang]

The explorer brakes are not weak matter of fact I think if your doing rear disc's and using a mix of used and new part this is the way to go but there are better set ups it just depends what you want to spend and how much work you want to do.

 

[Crude dude]

I looked on the TSM site and found the info on the dual caliper setup but I dont see any info on the dual caliper bracket. I have emailed them with a few questions and will let you guys know as soon as I get a response. I have the TSM rear disc setup using 1978 Mote Carlo calipers (without the park brake of the Toronado/Riviera/Caddy calipers) and using a 1984 Ramcharger (manual) master cylinder and my brakes work fantastic.

 

[badmuttstang]

I think that dual caliper set up is the way to go if I was going to do it as the explorer set up would not bolt up to my 9" without a lot of mods but still don't really think rear disc's are needed if you have hydro boost.

 

[ntsqd]

Having bought mine with GM fronts, H-B, and Exploder rear discs I can't imagine reverting to drums. Would be a definite step backwards.

Having observed a very dedicated brake engineer's effort to build a mechanical caliper for both p-brake and service brake use in the utility vehicle market I remain unconvinced that they will work better than a drum brake for p-brake duties. (He's very likely the same guy who engineered the wilwood kits for Broncos because he owns one.) To me p-brake means extremely high break-away torque, which in my mind requires a large contact area or a large engagement force since the Coefficient of Friction of pad or shoe materials has an upward limit that is pretty low. Large surface area is something that a caliper will never have and only drums are self-energizing.

 

[Crude dude]

What year explorers have the right setup to grab? I'm not sure what year my 9" is but it is not a banjo housing and it is a big bearing. Would be nice to be able to get parts at circle k when stuff breaks too.

 

[76Broncofromhell]

Having bought mine with GM fronts, H-B, and Exploder rear discs I can't imagine reverting to drums. Would be a definite step backwards.

Having observed a very dedicated brake engineer's effort to build a mechanical caliper for both p-brake and service brake use in the utility vehicle market I remain unconvinced that they will work better than a drum brake for p-brake duties. (He's very likely the same guy who engineered the wilwood kits for Broncos because he owns one.) To me p-brake means extremely high break-away torque, which in my mind requires a large contact area or a large engagement force since the Coefficient of Friction of pad or shoe materials has an upward limit that is pretty low. Large surface area is something that a caliper will never have and only drums are self-energizing.

100% accurate.

The last Explorer kit I saw was about $900 with axle shafts - which is a steal. When my Bronco project comes back into the garage, I am definitely going to this style of brake.

 

[pbwcr]

Fact:
For a static brake like the park brake the area has nothing to do with clamping force. Only pressure and coefficient of friction control.
PW
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Having bought mine with GM fronts, H-B, and Exploder rear discs I can't imagine reverting to drums. Would be a definite step backwards.

Having observed a very dedicated brake engineer's effort to build a mechanical caliper for both p-brake and service brake use in the utility vehicle market I remain unconvinced that they will work better than a drum brake for p-brake duties. (He's very likely the same guy who engineered the wilwood kits for Broncos because he owns one.) To me p-brake means extremely high break-away torque, which in my mind requires a large contact area or a large engagement force since the Coefficient of Friction of pad or shoe materials has an upward limit that is pretty low. Large surface area is something that a caliper will never have and only drums are self-energizing.

 

[ntsqd]

You're right. I tend to forget that and I know better.

Actually force rather than pressure. Still, when a drum tries to rotate it tries to drag the shoe(s) along with it, which causes the force to increase due to what I'll call a "wedging action" (for want of whatever the correct term is) adding to the initial applying force. When a disc tries to rotate there is no wedging action so all you get is the initial clamping force working for you.

 

[gddyap]

I have the Explorer brakes and the parking brake is not very good with 35s or larger. The drum is tiny and big tires have too much leverage.
For a t-case brake, if you upgrade the D20 to the WH 32 spline output, you have some options because you can convert the yoke to a flange. The rotor doesn't have to be very big because you get the mechanical advantage of the axle gears.

 

[Viperwolf1]

Bolt pattern isn't quite the same on the jeep D20 rear output assembly but that seems like a minor issue.

 

[bronconut73]

Bolt pattern isn't quite the same on the jeep D20 rear output assembly but that seems like a minor issue.

If someone can figure it out I will try it...

 

[Crude dude]

It's going to be really close to the floor board, a transfer case brake. I'd like that the most but I think it's going to be a tight fit

 

[pbwcr]

The reason for poor Explorer park brake performance is most likely due to not enough pressure provided by the pedal. For sure the pedal mechanical advantage is not designed for the small drum. A bigger drum is needed for such low pedal force.
The same thing would be apparent with disk drive line caliper. The largest diameter that would fit is the best solution for a stock pedal.

So you all can bad mouth the Varga or Cadillac caliper, but it does have the advantage of operating on a larger diameter. So that is why when I switched from Explorer to Varga I found better park brake holding power.

One thing that surely will help any of the above systems is a redesign of the pedal to get more force to the brake. Junk yard scroungers should look for a pedal that works better than your stock one.
PaulW

 

[toddz69]

So that is why when I switched from Explorer to Varga I found better park brake holding power.

PaulW

Paul: When did you use Explorer rear discs? I thought you had Wilwoods on your truck (which you ditched for the Vargas).

Todd Z.

 

[pbwcr]

Paul: When did you use Explorer rear discs? I thought you had Wilwoods on your truck (which you ditched for the Vargas).

Todd Z.

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Hi Todd,
96
Was: Wilwood calipers and Explorer disks with internal drums. That setup was a Wilwood package. Axle was 35S 10.25 ARB semi floater.
Now: Varga calipers with custom vented rotors. Axle is a 9" 40S Tubeworks spool full floater.
72
Cadillac calipers as a kit from BCB. Axle is a stock ARB 9"
Jeep
All stock. Axle is a 44 ARB with small internal drum park brake and a single piston disk caliper for service brakes. Very similar to the stock Explorer setup. And sure enough park brake wont hold the rig on a gentle hill. Good its an auto.
All rigs have always used the stock park brake pedal/cable. Jeep has a hand operated lever.
PaulW

 

[toddz69]

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96
Was: Wilwood calipers and Explorer disks with internal drums. That setup was a Wilwood package. Axle was 35S 10.25 ARB semi floater.
PaulW

I'm curious how the Explorer discs were configured with a Wilwood kit because the Wilwood kit you likely used uses Wilwood rotors:

http://www.wilwood.com/BrakeKits/BrakeKitsProdRear.aspx?itemno=140-7150-DR

The differences between it and the Explorer stuff have always (at least in my head) explained why you complained about rocks/gravel in your setup, i.e. the bottom inside of the rotor is open and susceptible to stuff getting in there.

Todd Z.

 

[landshark99]

 

[Crude dude]

Then I'd need a co-pilot. This fat boy isnt aerodynamic enough to get out on a hill fast enough to chock a tire haha.