Ebay hydroboost kit

[panteramatt]

Anyone run this kit? It looks complete and a good deal. https://www.ebay.com/itm/2567897462...d=link&campid=5335857059&toolid=20001&mkevt=1

 

[toddz69]

I'd be curious of the pedigree of the booster - I don't see any pics that show it to be a Bosch unit.

Todd Z.

 

[ntsqd]

The usual deal, if it looks too good to be true........

 

[panteramatt]

So whats wrong with it exactly? Uses a wilwood master cylinder, parts look good. Will it not have the same stopping power? Leak?

 

[toddz69]

There's a good chance there's not anything wrong with it - it might work and be perfectly fine! My only concern was the quality/manufacturer of the booster. There is a ton/flood of Chinese knockoff parts in the market today that are essentially crap. We hear horror stories here all the time and many of us have dealt with the repercussions of using them. There are plenty of vendors using genuine Bosch boosters in their kits. I'd ask this seller about the origins of his hydroboost unit and make my decision from there.

Todd Z.

 

[jamesroney]

There's a good chance there's not anything wrong with it - it might work and be perfectly fine! My only concern was the quality/manufacturer of the booster. There is a ton/flood of Chinese knockoff parts in the market today that are essentially crap. We hear horror stories here all the time and many of us have dealt with the repercussions of using them. There are plenty of vendors using genuine Bosch boosters in their kits. I'd ask this seller about the origins of his hydroboost unit and make my decision from there.

Todd Z.

There's a better chance that it's a pile of crap that you will never be able to service, cannot get warranty or repair from any traditional mechanic, and will be unsupported, undocumented, and impossible to decode / reverse-engineer in a few years.

I refuse to install any part on my Bronco that cannot be readily identified and serviced in the aftermarket by qualified, and reputable 3rd parties. If I absolutely cannot get "off the shelf" parts based on year, make and model...then I rely on the vendors that support this site to do that work for me.

Sure, you can risk it...but WHY??? You can get an OEM quality booster from any automotive store in the western hemisphere for an astro-van. You can break down anywhere, and spare parts are available. The whole point of making upgrades is to use commonly available parts. I'm pretty sure that you can get a D52 caliper from 7-eleven.

There are few things that frustrate me more than working on a Bronco and needing a part that I can't identify, or clone. The only thing more frustrating is working on a Bronco and needing a part that NO-ONE can identify.

"I think I might have got that off an old Land Rover..."
"I bought that off e-bay last year, but I'm not sure..."
"That was on my race car, and it was too expensive to throw away..."
"Did Holley really buy company xxx, and now it's no longer supported?"

Corvette MC, Astrovan HB, and custom bracket for the win.

 

[Shimmy]

^ this! serviceable parts is a must and knowing that availability. I still can't figure out what bellhousing i have! lol

 

[gr8scott]

Corvette MC, Astrovan HB, and custom bracket for the win.

 

[ntsqd]

^ this! serviceable parts is a must and knowing that availability. I still can't figure out what bellhousing i have! lol

My time in Vintage racing taught me to keep a log book where those sorts of things are written down. The Valiant got that done in an Excel spreadsheet because the tabs let me organize the info by each system.

 

[jamesroney]

I should probably throw out some kudos to Hydra-Tech and Wilwood. They have enough pride in their products to prominently display their brand.

@gr8scott I do see your Wilwood adjustable combination valve in the pic. But I also see your Borgeson / Flaming River / Who-Flung-Dung steering shaft universal joint. PLEASE replace that set screw with a safety wired cap screw the next time you service your Bronco.

It is very difficult to consistently harden, quench and heat treat an indented hex set screw. It is impossible to inspect, and there are no NDT methods to ensure conformance to specification. As a result, you can only manufacture in bulk and perform Statistical sampling...or proof test. We did it in Aerospace, but it is much too expensive for COTS fasteners.

The set screws are marketed as grade 8, but suffer from being MUCH harder. Often the spec is "grade 8 or higher." This gets totally lost in translation, and the Chinese often get it wrong. Furthermore the area near the Allen slots have significantly different thermal mass, and end up with much higher quench rate. So the set screw top becomes brittle, and the top of the set screw has different metallurgy than the bottom. (In my experience, short set screws have lower rates of failure than longer set screws.) I am surprised and disappointed in how many 5/16-18 set screws have self-destructed in the field. The failure mode is compounded by the jamb-nut, which applies tensile stress to the reduced area of the set screw. So the mitigation to prevent the set screw from loosening (tighten the nut) actually overloads the threads. A 5/16-18 UNC threaded bolt has a root diameter of .250, and a cross sectional area of .049 sq-in. The cross setional area in the indented hex location is the area of the body minus the area of the hexagon. A 5/32 hex has an apothem of 5/64, and an area of .021 square inches. So the internal stress on the set screw is basically double in the hex location. The initial torque for the set screw is about 20 lb-ft, but the max allowable torque for the jamb nut is 10 lb-ft. NOBODY gets this right.

I urge you to replace that set screw with a cross drilled cap screw and safety wire. It's easy, cheap, and vastly more reliable. My set screw broke off and fell out at 40 MPH in the Desert. The joint slipped off the shaft, and the steering wheel was no longer connected to the Bronco. I was "lucky."

 

[ntsqd]

When companies put their name on their product that boldly I ask for sponsorship. I'm advertising for them, I may as well get some benefit from it. If they aren't willing and I still want to use that product then their name gets painted over or otherwise covered/concealed.

Looked to see if I had pictures and I don't have ny good ones. I installed a Borgeson intermediate steering shaft in the Wagon and I wasn't happy about those set-screws, but needed to get it done to meet some deadline or other so I went with them.
Later I read one of James' well deserved rants about them and went back and changed them to G8's that I drilled for safety wire. Due to access, some are safety wired ala aircraft style (carefully twisted between bolt heads and wrapped on the bolt head's flats) and some are done "Agricultural" style (larger wire, single strand untwisted except at the ends), but all are wired, 271'd, and jam nutted. Any two of those methods should be enough to keep them tight.

Top-Tip: put the bolts in first, then mark which flat to drill on such that the wire has to bend more than 45° away from a circumference run and in the direction that would need to the bolt to tighten for the wire to get loose. That bolt now goes in that hole only!

 

[1969]

View attachment 944048

What year, make and model did you use to create this?

 

[Galt72]

I should probably throw out some kudos to Hydra-Tech and Wilwood. They have enough pride in their products to prominently display their brand.

@gr8scott I do see your Wilwood adjustable combination valve in the pic. But I also see your Borgeson / Flaming River / Who-Flung-Dung steering shaft universal joint. PLEASE replace that set screw with a safety wired cap screw the next time you service your Bronco.

It is very difficult to consistently harden, quench and heat treat an indented hex set screw. It is impossible to inspect, and there are no NDT methods to ensure conformance to specification. As a result, you can only manufacture in bulk and perform Statistical sampling...or proof test. We did it in Aerospace, but it is much too expensive for COTS fasteners.

The set screws are marketed as grade 8, but suffer from being MUCH harder. Often the spec is "grade 8 or higher." This gets totally lost in translation, and the Chinese often get it wrong. Furthermore the area near the Allen slots have significantly different thermal mass, and end up with much higher quench rate. So the set screw top becomes brittle, and the top of the set screw has different metallurgy than the bottom. (In my experience, short set screws have lower rates of failure than longer set screws.) I am surprised and disappointed in how many 5/16-18 set screws have self-destructed in the field. The failure mode is compounded by the jamb-nut, which applies tensile stress to the reduced area of the set screw. So the mitigation to prevent the set screw from loosening (tighten the nut) actually overloads the threads. A 5/16-18 UNC threaded bolt has a root diameter of .250, and a cross sectional area of .049 sq-in. The cross setional area in the indented hex location is the area of the body minus the area of the hexagon. A 5/32 hex has an apothem of 5/64, and an area of .021 square inches. So the internal stress on the set screw is basically double in the hex location. The initial torque for the set screw is about 20 lb-ft, but the max allowable torque for the jamb nut is 10 lb-ft. NOBODY gets this right.

I urge you to replace that set screw with a cross drilled cap screw and safety wire. It's easy, cheap, and vastly more reliable. My set screw broke off and fell out at 40 MPH in the Desert. The joint slipped off the shaft, and the steering wheel was no longer connected to the Bronco. I was "lucky."

Do you have a link to the type of bolt your discussing? I'd be interested in swapping mine out. Thanks

 

[ntsqd]

Do you have a link to the type of bolt your discussing? I'd be interested in swapping mine out. Thanks

I drill my own, but can buy these: https://www.mcmaster.com/products/drilled-hex-head-cap-screws/finish~zinc-plated/

 

[gr8scott]

What year, make and model did you use to create this?

I bought this inline bracket made by CB member @catfan
It uses 1990-1995 Astrovan hydro boost units. Mine is the earlier 1990-93.
The master can be found anywhere. Mine is similar to what they sell at WH
which is based off the Corvette master.

 

[gr8scott]

I urge you to replace that set screw with a cross drilled cap screw and safety wire.

Thanks for this. Been wanting to do something different than the set screw/jam nut for a while.

 

[ntsqd]

FWIW I'm using m/c's with a Ø1.25" bore with H-B's on both the FSB and on the Wagon. I've no idea what pedal ratio either has, but I REALLY like the pedal feel. On the FSB total pedal movement might be as much as 1.5" total. Modulation is fantastic, more force on the pedal translates directly into faster stopping, but the pedal doesn't really move much. The Wagon has slightly more pedal travel, but is still a firm feeling pedal that isn't touchy in the slightest. Both trucks have GM D52 front calipers (Ø2-15/16" pistons).

This is the m/c that I used on the wagon: https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=112991&cc=1052367&pt=1836&jsn=1 The H-B unit on it came off of a full size Chevy Express van so it has Chevy mount spacing. The H-B unit on the FSB came from Vanco and has Ford m/c mount spacing, so I used this m/c:: https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=2591140&cc=1127012&pt=1836&jsn=959

 

[1969]

I bought this inline bracket made by CB member @catfan
It uses 1990-1995 Astrovan hydro boost units. Mine is the earlier 1990-93.
The master can be found anywhere. Mine is similar to what they sell at WH
which is based off the Corvette master.

Why do you use the earlier version?

 

[gr8scott]

Why do you use the earlier version?

It's what was available locally.

 

[jamesroney]

It's what was available locally.

Looks familiar...

In summary:
Catfan "shorty" in-line booster bracket. Ebay seller "Deals4u5309"
1991-1993 Chevrolet Astro Hydroboost, Cardone 527251
1967-1976 Chevrolet Corvette MC, Raybestos MC39018