Eldorado Calipers / No Holding Power

[bronconut73]

I knew I should have just bought BC's loaded "new" calipers back in the day.....but they were so expensive....lol....

 

[OX1]

I like this idea, I think I would have room. Would require some new brackets but looks like the wilwood can only fit a .8” rotor and I’m pretty sure the 1-ton rotors are way over that. Otherwise I’d probably be all for this. Time will tell if my caddy calipers lose adjustment over time. If not, this might be a good option.

Never looked at that aspect, but I guess that rules them out
for most 8 lug rear disk setups. I looked at the newer mustangs,
since my 14 GT has rear disk and cable actuated disk parking brake,
but they are in the .8 range too, even for the GT500's.

Yeah I think the pads with the pins are a little harder to come by and it’s not well understood how important they are so resellers are sending them out with basic MKD153 pads. Mine came without pins but yes if I can get these things to hold tight with a homemade pin, then I’ll try ordering some pads that have pins in the pictures. I modified mine because I wanted to prove the theory quickly without spending the money in new pads that may or may not have the pins as shown in the pictures.

Yeah, I don't see how any of those sets would work without some way
to hold piston. The Mk VII calipers have 2 pins. I don't recall having to
do any odd setup proceudre on those, but sometimes piston won't retract
back in (on threaded stud fo PB), if not used over spans of years,
when you go to put new pads in.

That said, I put them on almost 10 years ago, and they still seem to
work OK, but the rig hasn't gone anywhere except several parking spots
and a 2 post lift. ;D

I would definately roll with what you have, since you found the issue.
They do provide decent grip, even used as a real emerg brake.

Found this in a pirate thread. Not sure what procedure you guys have
been using, maybe this will help.

My issue, back in the day I suppose, was sitting in swamps,
stuck for hours on end. I'm sure water got in internally, and
the emerg brake part stopped working. I got another set and
ended up just swapping out for inspection only. It was a mud
truck used only in south jersey, which had maybe a 200' elevation
change thoughout the lower end of the state.

Anyway...............

"Adjust Caliper Parking Brakes

The GM rear caliper with integral parking brake is self-adjusting when you use the parking brake. As the pads wear it will click to the next stop, but they do not always work and they will not work if you do not use your parking brake.

Rear Caliper Parking Brake Lever Adjustment

Note: This procedure must be performed as part of the rear caliper replacement operation. Failure to adjust the parking brake lever, before you apply the hydraulic brakes, can result in no parking brake and possible premature brake wear or damage.

Adjust the parking brake levers by pushing them forward. Each time you push them they should move off of the stop less. To be properly adjusted, they should only move off of the stop 3/8 to 1/2 inch. If they will not adjust try putting a lever between the rotor and the pad and putting pressure on the piston. Now push the lever releasing pressure on the pad as the caliper adjusts. These are the only two ways we know of to adjust the parking brake. If the calipers won't adjust you will have a low pedal and the piston will retract too far and will use up all your hydraulic pedal travel to put the brakes on. Once the parking brake calipers ore adjusted put a c-clamp on between the lever and the bracket to hold the brakes locked up.

Note: An easy test for proper lever position is to grasp the brake pad and try to shake it. If any rattling is heard, the parking brake lever requires adjustment."

https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/general-4x4-discussion/911859-14-bolt-e-brake-disc-2.html

Could always go to this disaster, LOL

http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/roces111/media/bWVkaWFJZDo4ODAzMjIzMQ==/?ref=

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn242/roces111/000_10002.jpg

But at least it shows, 4 link, strut/coilover and 2 large calipers fits.

 

[OX1]

I knew I should have just bought BC's loaded "new" calipers back in the day.....but they were so expensive....lol....

Quick look over rock auto, appears many sets of pads have
the pins. Now wether they show up with the pins?? ;D

 

[bronconut73]

Tru dat....

 

[SteveL]

If they do show up with the pins list the part number

 

[charlie6976]

My TBP's rear disc conversion is working fine so right out of the box. And if you're using the same caliper, TBPs has replacement rear disc pads on their site.
I'm talking parking brake holding. But from all the negative talk, I am cautious.

 

[DanWheeler]

My TBP's rear disc conversion is working fine so right out of the box. And if you're using the same caliper, TBPs has replacement rear disc pads on their site.
I'm talking parking brake holding. But from all the negative talk, I am cautious.

I did talk to Toms about their brakes but learned that they sell the smaller Eldorado calipers from the mid 80s with the 5” pin spacing. I’m using the 7” pin spacing calipers and pads. The ones from an 80s front Chevy pickup.

From the adjustment videos I’ve seen which are all for the smaller calipers, they all show the pads with pins and those calipers have multiple notches in the piston so you can choose several rotations of the piston to adjust them.

I’m still working out how the ratcheting internals play into adjustment. From what I can tell, it’s possible to rotate the screw counter clockwise indefinitely so to adjust mine, I just put the wrench on the lever hex then install the 13/16ths nut over the wrench (keeps the whole thing from getting sucked inside the caliper) then spin counter clockwise until the wrench lines up with the backstop then install the lever. I’m simplifying a bit but with the way these ratchet, im not seeing why the multiple notches are necessary. The internal ratchet allows you to set your activation point at any degree of rotation by spinning it in reverse. At the point you go from reverse rotation then back to forward rotation, the brake instantly engages (just like a bike with pedal brakes) and that’s where you line it up with the lever backstop.

 

[charlie6976]

Thanks for clarification.

 

[DanWheeler]

OK, got the pin added to the other side. With e-brake lever engaged, I'm getting more of a positive limit on the e-brake lever where you can tell it's about as far as it will go and at this point, I am NOT able to turn the tires by hand so definitely an improvement from no pins but test drive was not impressive. 15mph to a stop probably took 50 feet. It will hold on a slight incline (my driveway) but I don't think it would do much good on a steep trail. Still more testing to do but overall not great.

I'd really like something that could get me to a stop going down a highway mountain pass. I'll need to do some more testing to see if these could do it but one thing I know is it won't be quick.

back to the drawing board.

 

[OX1]

OK, got the pin added to the other side. With e-brake lever engaged, I'm getting more of a positive limit on the e-brake lever where you can tell it's about as far as it will go and at this point, I am NOT able to turn the tires by hand so definitely an improvement from no pins but test drive was not impressive. 15mph to a stop probably took 50 feet. It will hold on a slight incline (my driveway) but I don't think it would do much good on a steep trail. Still more testing to do but overall not great.

I'd really like something that could get me to a stop going down a highway mountain pass. I'll need to do some more testing to see if these could do it but one thing I know is it won't be quick.

back to the drawing board.

Using stock foot pedal mechanism? How far does pedal go down?
(guessing less than half). Might break calipers, but what about a
longer lever arm on caliper? Not sure that would get you what you
want.

or maybe that idea of a separate hydraulic caliper with a clutch type slave
cylinder is not as crazy as it first sounded.

All that said, did you assume at least half of a dual normal braking
system? (not sure how you test that, without actually doing it).
Put it in lowest gear avail?

One time on an older F250, I was testing to see if a vibration
was engine or drivetrain. I dumped the C6 in Rev (going for nuetral)
@ about 20 MPH. Locked up the rear wheels pretty good and didn't
explode. So that is part of my plan (if 1rst gear doesn't do it), as I
don't have an emerg brake on my trail rig (which is trail only).;D

 

[DanWheeler]

The hand lever and cables are both brand new Lokar stuff. That part is all working great. Really happy with how the install went.

A second set of hydraulic calipers is an interesting idea. Could be hooked up to a cutting brake hand lever. Of course, in an emergency, that could be a disaster to accidentally pull just one at highway speed. May be a way to lock them together.

I may revisit the driveline brake. Just seemed like it would be creating a lot of drag.

2005 and newer Sterling axles have disc brakes with drum hats in the rotors. I could swap out to a newer sterling just need to figure out the lug pattern differences. My axle has a slight bend in it anyway and have been considering replacing it and using a longer truss.

 

[Spaggyroe]

bringing this thread back up to add some additional info...

Many people end up with standard D52 brake pads in their caddy calipers. Those do not have any provision to prevent the piston from rotating.When the pstons rotate, the brakes go out of adjustment, and the caddy calipers don't have to go far out of adjustment to be pretty worthless. I believe this is why many people have spoken badly about them over the years.

The proper brake pads to get are the D122's. They have a small "pin" protruding from the back of the inner pad that engages with the piston and prevents it from rotating.

This pertains to the earlier (larger) eldorado calipers (7" pin spacing).

 

[DirtDonk]

Thanks very much for that. It's a good detail to be clear on.

Paul

 

[Bronco4x4]

Does anyone know if the BC Broncos rear kit has these pads. It’s been a while since my install and trying to avoid taking apart for inspection.

 

[toddz69]

Does anyone know if the BC Broncos rear kit has these pads. It’s been a while since my install and trying to avoid taking apart for inspection.

They use the more common 'metric' calipers in their conversions, which use the D154 pads. You'll have to find the equivalent in that size that might have the pins to engage the pistons.

Todd Z.