Engine/Trans Combo

[redvettemike]

I had previously posted some photos of this true 'race Bronco'. It was a round track mud racer back in the day. The daughter of the the original owner (her Father) and her husband want it restored and made street drivable, A/C and all. We do not have an engine or transmission. I'd like some guidance on what would be a good combination for engine and trans. They want a automatic with overdrive. They would like an engine with 300-350 horsepower but with good street manners. What do you folks think would be a good combination in that regard. They would buy new items. Thanks for any advice.
Mike in Ms.

 

[sanndmann3]

Personally, I like the 351W/4R70W combo with a NP205 behind them...
Are you partial to Coyote engine, Windsor or open to anything?

 

[redvettemike]

Personally, I like the 351W/4R70W combo with a NP205 behind them...
Are you partial to Coyote engine, Windsor or open to anything?

Tks. We want something dependable that could be driven at 60mph or so for 100 mile trip. 300-350 HP. Prob EFI. Is the 4R70W an OD that would bolt up to the 351? Who sells a 351 or soes someone sell the 351/Trans combo? I see some engines in the $4k-$4.5k range. Is that a fair price (you can see we have little knowledge.) Tks

 

[thegreatjustino]

Drop in an Explorer 5.0 and 4R70W. Factory V8 drivetrain from Ford. Pretty simple swap and originated in a street driven vehicle.

 

[DirtDonk]

We want something dependable that could be driven at 60mph or so for 100 mile trip.

Hey Mike. Is that all the customer is going to do with it? If so, why the need for more than double the original power in the Bronco? Yes, it can be fun, but who's going to be driving it, and do they want to end up on one of those YouTube compilations of epic fails when too much power gets in the wrong hands?
Is this person familiar with the handling characteristics of a 50 year old utility truck? Just checking, in case this is a new-to-you customer.

I was originally going to say an EFI 351 or stroker too, but for cruising and having fun a stock (literally stock) Explorer 5.0 with the aforementioned 4R70W automatic overdrive and the correct differential gears for the tire size, and you've got a sweet combination. Easy to fit, easy on the pocket book, easy on the equipment, and just a really nice combo.
It's what I've got in the '68 and I'm going to change the gear ratios to get more speed, hopefully more mpg than I already get (which is pretty darn good for a Bronco), and LESS power. Yep, you read that right. Less power to the ground.
Right now I can hardly keep the tires from smoking, with 4.56 gears and 31" tires and the power of the 5.0, accelerating quickly is a challenge. And I can still get 20mpg on the highway.
Granted, for me a set of larger tires with all-terrain tread would be a good alternate solution. But I already have the gear setups so it's just a matter of labor on my part.

The stock Explorer is admittedly a little anemic by today's standards at only 240hp or so, but that's still roughly 100 more horsepower than a stock '72-'77 Bronco 302 had. Just think how much fun that 100 extra horses is, without the need for another 100 on top of that.

But you have to figure out exactly what the customer wants, needs and can use and that will help determine the outcome.
A 351W with EFI and some programming can lay down 300 to 350 reliable horsepower very easily. But remember what else might break downstream from that power and torque too, given the right (wrong?) right foot applications.

Are you gong to be updating the differentials, axles, and other stuff while you're adding power? Might be worth checking into how the customer intends to drive it.
And remember, with decent power and the wrong gearing, everything between the engine and the tires takes a huge beating. Hence my constant blathering about correct gear ratios and their importance in the happy-camping aspects.

Anyway, that's all just my old man nanny side talking. If the customer knows what they're doing, what they're getting into, and how to make it all work and have fun (and keep the family safe) then a Blueprint crate motor in the 350hp range would be a slick and racy setup. Check out their prices, or check out Summit crate motor pricing in any size Windsor family engine that gets you there.

Good luck!

Paul

 

[redvettemike]

Paul: Tks for the response. These are mature people with no heavy foot. And probably do not need 350. It sounds good but I think there is not the need for that amount of HP. I'm sending them your response and we will talk.
A crate 351 with 300 HP and hooked to a Ford AOD? Is that a decent combination. This Bronco is going to be driven on the street by these mature adults. No mud; no rock climbing of trail riding. They will want the A/C to work and the radio to work. Tks again for the response. (you do not need to answer the email I sent to you.) Mike

 

[Broncobowsher]

351W and 4R70W. Great combo. Need the right axle gearing to get the OD to be happy. Generally much lower gearing than you would normally think is good. Don't know the tire sizing, but looking at the pictures and guessing about the same size, 4.88ish.

A bone stock 351 won't get you the power you are asking for. I would strongly suggest talking to an engine builder. Soo many (as in almost anything) will be selling to a HP number. You need to talk to an engine builder and explain that HP isn't the end goal, but you want some. Want it to be real fun put a set of aluminum heads on a 408 stroker kit inside a 351W block. It can be done to the point it would look near stock and move like stink. Keep the compression in the low 9s and it will be very pump gas friendly and have all you could ask for.

4R70W is typically sourced from '96-'01 5.0 V8 Explorers. The '98 and newer have the best parts inside. Stand alone controller for the win. You can actually get the shifts to happen where the match the engine and the vehicle. Not the old school mechanical setup where it shifts at some of the right times and you have to run it manually because it isn't matched to the engine power anymore. With adaptors (different ways of doing it) you can even bolt a stock Bronco Dana 20 back in place.

The '96-'01 V8 Explorer is also a great donor for the front accessory drive. The only thing that works better than a stock setup.

Now the bad is there isn't one place to just go and get everything in a one stop shop. That would be too easy. Closest is the Explorer but that is just a 5.0 in the low 200 HP range. Yes, the wick can be turned up but the reliability and drivability goes down just as fast. A good reliable mild cruiser engine that has the HP you are after takes cubic inches and a little cam. 351W block is the biggest block that will comfortably fit in a Bronco.

 

[DirtDonk]

For most modern people I would go with the EFI setup. Factory preferred, and that lets you used the stock (or stock-ish) computer to control the later iterations of the AOD too. Specifically the 4R70W which it is agreed by most, is the best of the best when it comes to the old AOD family. Stronger, better shifting, better everything. But in basically the same old AOD size case.
The only downside (which is not much of a downside) is that it needs the computer to control the shifting. Either a factory computer, a Pimp-X by Stinger Performance, or a stand-alone transmission controller if you decide to stick with carburetor.
The old AOD is the simpler of them, being non-electronic. But it has it's shortcomings in the modern world. But it sounds like it's still a viable option if they're going to remain carbureted and are just bopping around in it.

But most modern owners are going to much prefer fuel-injection over carburetion these days I think. Each one is different though, so depends on what they're used to.
You can make a wicked sounding, but not too loud and not too powerful, 5.0 with EFI and overdrive auto that would make 90% of adults super happy to be cruising with. Especially when it comes to hauling family with them.

It's those reliable first starts, few stumbles and smoother operation (not to mention less smelly stuff from an old engine design) that makes believers out of Bronco drivers.

Paul

 

[Broncobowsher]

Paul: Tks for the response. These are mature people with no heavy foot. And probably do not need 350. It sounds good but I think there is not the need for that amount of HP. I'm sending them your response and we will talk.
A crate 351 with 300 HP and hooked to a Ford AOD? Is that a decent combination. This Bronco is going to be driven on the street by these mature adults. No mud; no rock climbing of trail riding. They will want the A/C to work and the radio to work. Tks again for the response. (you do not need to answer the email I sent to you.) Mike

Crate 300 HP is fine. Ditch the AOD, use a 4R70W from an Explorer as I noted above. (that is the problem when I take too long to type and other answers show up.