explorer engine question (just curious)

[suckerpunched]

do the 97-01 explorers have a smog pump in their original configuration?

 

[904Bronco]

do the 97-01 explorers have a smog pump in their original configuration?

No.

No provisions in the back of the heads either... GT40 in 96 or the P heads after

 

[DirtDonk]

So yeah, if you're planning to build a '76 or '77, it might be a cool smog engine to complement the Bronco.
Would not have to jump through quite as many hoops as 904 did on one of his builds. But then again, if they make you put all the vacuum canisters and such under the hood, you could have a busy engine compartment!

Paul

 

[suckerpunched]

Paul, you guessed correctly as to why I was asking. I have neighbor with a 77 he wants to build. He took it apart years ago, original 302 and all it's components are gone. just making sure I am giving him good advice. I think the explorer setup is the most doable option, but would still want to talk to the referee and find out what all has to be there.

 

[DirtDonk]

That would be a good call. Two buddies local here (one is member 904Bronco) that both put Mustang 5.0's in their '77's and had two different experiences.
The negative experience (904's of course...) was mostly because they wanted almost everything from the Mustang put into the Bronco.
That included discrete full dual exhaust (when he wanted a single) with four catalytic converters(!) when he wanted only one, the factory air box (awkward!), and all the vacuum reservoirs for the HVAC and other in-cab controls (he needed none of them for the Bronco) and ended up with a very full engine compartment. Along with probably other stuff I'm not remembering.
But hey, after jumping through many hoops, it did pass!

The Exploder might have mot fiddly bits on the engine, but it all works well together and fits under the hood. As well as having only a single exhaust with dual cats. So half the exhaust expense.

Good luck to your friend.
Oh, and the other guy had to do virtually none of that stuff and passed with just the normal Mustang smog stuff and single exhaust. Go figure...

Paul

 

[suckerpunched]

Thats what I worry about. doing everything that is logical and having some jack ass jerk you around on the HVAC controls. were they both cleared by the same referee?

 

[DirtDonk]

No, the guys that ran 904 through the ringer-hoop was in a more "smog friendly" county supposedly. The guys that passed Jay right through with little drama were right here in San Jose.
Not only were they very accommodating (but strict as the book needed) they even let him pass without the exhaust in place!
He had it in the back of the truck when he went in, and showed them what he was going to be using, and they said OK.
Must've been a busy day!

Paul

 

[suckerpunched]

So I wonder what happens if you can't work with one guy in my case it would be Fresno, could it be taken to San Jose for a shot at a 2nd opinion. I did deal with the fresno ref once in the past, dinged my on a few petty things that even he admitted would not negatively affect the way it ran or it's emissions. If anything it could be slightly better my way. They were not that easy to fix and he knew it, So yeah I thought he was a .... I think it might be worth a trip into the refs shop to discuss intentions and see what he will require. I would like to see him do a legit passable setup, but could walk him through changing the year model too. which would be faster and cheaper in the end.

 

[DirtDonk]

You have to be careful about going between counties sometimes. In the case I mentioned above it was two distinct counties, but I believe that they have similar goals and requirements. Not sure about Santa Clara and Fresno Counties.

And it's counter-intuitive anyway. You'd have thought the SC based guys would have been pickier than the San Benito guys, but apparently not. And with your experience, it's really hard to say.
The downside of traveling is that if you do get a whacked referee, you end up having to go back and forth all that distance instead of just dealing with the local guys.

I wonder if another venue in-between would not be the better compromise then? Maybe Modesto or thereabouts? Or Los Banos?
If you'd rather give it a try though, I can find out from Jay if there are different ref stations in the area and which one he went to.
You know... I don't actually mind some of the hoops you end up with here. But the fact that there can be such wide interpretations of it just makes me sick because it smacks of little mini-Mussolinis trying to flex their power over the public.
And that pisses me off.

Paul

 

[tirewater]

Paul, you guessed correctly as to why I was asking. I have neighbor with a 77 he wants to build. He took it apart years ago, original 302 and all it's components are gone. just making sure I am giving him good advice. I think the explorer setup is the most doable option, but would still want to talk to the referee and find out what all has to be there.

He should check the DSO to see if it's an out of state Bronco. If so, it may not need the smog pump/AIR injection system.

Personally I wouldn't install an engine from a later model car because of the issues that 904 went through. I feel it's too restrictive, as the Bronco will have to pass emissions for the year of the vehicle that you transplant into it. This includes the visual inspection, which may require all catalytic converters, etc...

Unless you can find an engine that will be exempt from testing once it passes the ref (such as a diesel)

The tail pipe test for the '76/'77 years is pretty lenient, and a new/modern catalytic converter can make up for non functioning EGR and Smog equipment. The biggest issue is the *visual* inspection.

What's specific for the '76/'77 Bronco are the smog pump bracket, as well as the cylinder heads + AIR valves going into them. The rest of it you can piece together from other vehicles. If I were to build an engine now, I'd get a CARB EO cylinder head (trick flow or AFR), figure out how to route hoses/pipes to the back of the head from the smog pump and go from there.

The STAR smog tester is going to have a list of required equipment, the implementation has some flexibility. Keeping the vehicle with an early motor prevents the hassles of having failed OBD tests that will have you endlessly chasing codes in order to pass smog.

 

[DirtDonk]

Can't argue with much of what tirewater said suckerpunched.
Is a cat really going to compensate enough to fool the sniffer with all the other stuff non-functioning? If so that may simplify a lot.

So ultimately what does your friend want to accomplish? Simple and get it back on the road? Higher performance and more reliability maybe?
Is he wanting to go EFI specifically?

Paul

 

[tirewater]

There are two parts to this, modern catalytic converters are more efficient than the original ones, and allowable emissions are much higher on older vehicles. Typically they're tested against what was allowable for the time. I believe it's broken down '76-'79, '80-'94, etc....

I posted my smog results on my build thread. You can see the limits there. Also notice that EGR Functional is N/A (no ODB). Oddly enough AIR is N/A as well...

Can't argue with much of what tirewater said suckerpunched.
Is a cat really going to compensate enough to fool the sniffer with all the other stuff non-functioning? If so that may simplify a lot.

So ultimately what does your friend want to accomplish? Simple and get it back on the road? Higher performance and more reliability maybe?
Is he wanting to go EFI specifically?

Paul

 

[suckerpunched]

yeah I worry about all that stuff you guys mentioned. I was mistaken it,s not a 77, it''s a 74. or it will be soon;D