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Explorer Power Steering Pump to Reservoir Pressure?

ba123

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So I’ve got the Explorer pump which works great with my 35” tires, don’t need a new pump…this one is new, btw.

I’ve got the Lee Power Steering nice reservoir with dual returns all nicely plumbed with my Hydroboost.

All works fabulously well.

BUT, the hose inlet line from the reservoir to the pump seems to build pressure and eventually leak no matter how much I overtighten that hose!

Just curious if anyone has dealt with this?

I’ve seen the posts about the Lee’s fittings but pretty sure those are for the out—pressure side and I’m good there.

Maybe it’s the same though and I can try something like that?
Maybe I’m not supposed to have pressure there and perhaps the cap on the reservoir needs to let pressure out and it’s not?
Maybe there is something else going on?

IMG_9717.jpeg

Thanks for any input.
 

EPB72

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slight pressure build up in the reservoir is common on alot of different applications, I'd question if theres somthing going on with that hose maybe damaged during install?,, or that clamp looks like its for a larger diameter hose with all that excess ,
 

surfer-b

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I'm not familiar will the Lee reservoir but I would guess the cap should be vented, if not working properly it could be building pressure, this is just a guess, I would contact him and see what he says
 
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ba123

ba123

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slight pressure build up in the reservoir is common on alot of different applications, I'd question if theres somthing going on with that hose maybe damaged during install?,, or that clamp looks like its for a larger diameter hose with all that excess ,
I had a different clamp on there before. It doesn't leak at first but after driving a bit the pressure builds and that seems to be the weak point. Clamp is not the problem.

I'm not familiar will the Lee reservoir but I would guess the cap should be vented, if not working properly it could be building pressure, this is just a guess, I would contact him and see what he says
That is one of my questions...does someone have a stock Explorer res they can look at? I have one in a box somewhere in storage that I might have to try to dig up. Great idea on asking Lee's, I just sent them an email.
 

EPB72

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I had a different clamp on there before. It doesn't leak at first but after driving a bit the pressure builds and that seems to be the weak point. Clamp is not the problem.


That is one of my questions...does someone have a stock Explorer res they can look at? I have one in a box somewhere in storage that I might have to try to dig up. Great idea on asking Lee's, I just sent them an email.
I have a stock one it does vent out the cap when plugging return line and blowing through suction port, ...
 

Broncobowsher

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Get a better clamp. That worm clamp is garbage at trying to seal that line. The factory spring clamps are actually a really good design as they provide constant tension that is even around the full circumference (so long as you don't bend them). There are other stepless clamp designs that work as well. That current oversized worm clamp will have low tensions spots around the screw housing. doing what you are doing on an oil line, it will leak every time. Nothing wrong with the hose, just the wrong clamp for the application. Hose is probably damaged now doe to over tightening of that style clamp.
 
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ba123

ba123

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I have a stock one it does vent out the cap when plugging return line and blowing through suction port, ...
thanks! Will see what Lee says but if no solution I’ll figure out a way for the cap to release pressure.

Get a better clamp. That worm clamp is garbage at trying to seal that line. The factory spring clamps are actually a really good design as they provide constant tension that is even around the full circumference (so long as you don't bend them). There are other stepless clamp designs that work as well. That current oversized worm clamp will have low tensions spots around the screw housing. doing what you are doing on an oil line, it will leak every time. Nothing wrong with the hose, just the wrong clamp for the application. Hose is probably damaged now doe to over tightening of that style clamp.
Yes, I know. I just had to find a different beefy clamp that would clamp the crap out of it. Otherwise I wouldn’t have figured out why it would leak starting the second or third drive. I will get a better clamp for sure!

Thanks!
 

Yeller

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I've pressured steering systems on purpose... so it shouldn't matter. my question would be, is the hose rated for oil? my guess would be the hose is failing and tightening the clamp more solves it for a short time.
 
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ba123

ba123

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Hose said it was for fuel/oil/hydraulic fluid and only leaking at that one weak point. I will double check the rating of the hose when home to be sure.

Lee’s already responded and said:
“The caps are set to vent between 13 and 15 psi, so that is very stange. all the pumps we sell use AN fittings and not slip on. But you would have to have the pump machined to do that.

If you remove the reservoir cap do you still get the leak?”

So, I should prob try to seal the top somehow and drive but I don’t really like that idea. Maybe I’ll remove a line and pressurize the res to test…maybe the inlet line would be best since I know I need to do something different anyway.
 

Yeller

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I have had hose (especially radiator hoses) that have internal leaks that leak through the cords of the hose no matter how tight the clamp is. I would change the hose and go from there. I've pressurized power steering pumps up to 50psi to prevent cavitation at high rpm, so I don't see an issue with pressure in the system but an internal issue with the hose would be my thought at this point.
 
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ba123

ba123

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Thanks, I’ll plan on putting in a new one after the cap test. You’re prob right.
 

EPB72

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I’d suspect the OE cap will hold about 2-3 psi just from experience of opening and checking on thousands a various vehicles over the years, expedition , f series trucks generally get a little pssst when opening..
 

ntsqd

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I can say that the Lee reservoirs are not vented, and that they should not be vented. What GPM is the Explorer PS pump? How many gallons does your Lee reservoir hold? Let that soak a little bit, think about what those two numbers mean relative to each other. This was a revelation to me!

The pump needs some hydro-static head on it to keep it from sucking air. The reservoirs are not vented on purpose. They will build up some pressure and that keeps the pump in PS fluid.

I learned all of this the hard way. I built a nicely vented remote PS reservoir that didn't work. In spite of holding ~1/2 quart of PS fluid and having a -10AN feed line out of the bottom of the reservoir the pump cavitated. Opening the cap while it was running was eye opening. The fluid was MOVING thru the reservoir, none of it was static. I've since added a 20 psi pressure relief valve to the vent on the reservoir, but I haven't wanted to make that mess, again, so it hasn't yet been tested on the truck.

Was it me I'd replace that inlet tube with an AN adapter and use a Push-Lock/Barb-tite type hose end on the supply hose. But then I abhor hose clamps and do everything that I can to not use them.
 
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toddz69

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Hose said it was for fuel/oil/hydraulic fluid and only leaking at that one weak point. I will double check the rating of the hose when home to be sure.

Lee’s already responded and said:
“The caps are set to vent between 13 and 15 psi, so that is very stange. all the pumps we sell use AN fittings and not slip on. But you would have to have the pump machined to do that.

If you remove the reservoir cap do you still get the leak?”

So, I should prob try to seal the top somehow and drive but I don’t really like that idea. Maybe I’ll remove a line and pressurize the res to test…maybe the inlet line would be best since I know I need to do something different anyway.
I have an almost exactly identical configuration with a Lee reservoir that I've had on my truck since 2005 iirc. Never a leak at that spot. My hose clamp is a little different and I use the blue Aeroquip hose. I get a little fluid leaking out around the lid from time to time but not bad.

Todd Z.
 
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toddz69

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Here's mine. Aeroquip FC332 hose and a hose clamp from an unknown source.

Todd Z.
 

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ntsqd

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That clamp appears to be an ABA made clamp or a clone of one. About as good as it gets in a std worm drive hose clamp. Note that it is NOT perforated and the edges are angled. Both are features to keep from destroying the hose.
Only better clamps are those with a spring-loaded worm to maintain a constant tension on the band.
 

toddz69

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It might be a clamp made for silicone hose - possibly purchased from Pegasus Racing Supply - I can't recall.

Todd Z.
 

nvrstuk

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Not stealing Ben's thread as others besides myself might want to know the benefits of pressuring when there is no problem w/o pressure.

This is interesting since the vented alum reservoir w/filter I run from PSC the past 15 yrs on my hydro assist strg setup works great. I have increased the pump spring pressure and the bypass hole dia size is vented to the atmosphere and I decreased the size of the pulley for more rpms at low speed (so I never fight pump flow to my cylinder assist for low rpm). My pump doesn't cavitate at 6,000 rpm when cranking the wheel lock to lock in stupid deep snow so what am I missing here? It does not overflow out the vent hose.

Should I be looking for a 5 or 10psi pressure relief valve? I keep the level exactly 1" below the threads.

Thanks
 

Yeller

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Not stealing Ben's thread as others besides myself might want to know the benefits of pressuring when there is no problem w/o pressure.

This is interesting since the vented alum reservoir w/filter I run from PSC the past 15 yrs on my hydro assist strg setup works great. I have increased the pump spring pressure and the bypass hole dia size is vented to the atmosphere and I decreased the size of the pulley for more rpms at low speed (so I never fight pump flow to my cylinder assist for low rpm). My pump doesn't cavitate at 6,000 rpm when cranking the wheel lock to lock in stupid deep snow so what am I missing here? It does not overflow out the vent hose.

Should I be looking for a 5 or 10psi pressure relief valve? I keep the level exactly 1" below the threads.

Thanks
It depends on a few things. Amount of head is a factor, also the size of the hose, and the viscosity of the fluid used. About that time PSC went from a #10 feed line to a #12. Type of pump is a factor too, canned ham pumps tend to be less sensitive, CBR pumps a little more so.

25 years ago what got me to playing with it was the fact my hot modded Saginaw pump that I had boosted pressure and increased flow on was silent under a 1000 feet of elevation at home, get to 5000 or more and it worked fine but sounded angry, the higher you got the worse it sounded once you got above idle, at 14,000 feet it sounded like an angry wild cat with a megaphone at all rpms. So I experimented with pressure in the system, problem solved. Later I learned I wasn’t the only one experimenting with it.

The amount of flow happening with a tiny amount of fluid is crazy. I read an article written around 2000 by a trophy truck driver/owner from Australia. In those days steering on those trucks were an Achilles heal and often the cause of DNF’s. He set out to build a system that would do from full lock to full lock in 1 revolution of the wheel, be dependable and perform at full speed from idle to 7000rpm. He found air bubbles and heat to be his biggest enemies. keep in mind he was running 10gpm at idle, double what most run at high rpm. He wound up with a 5 gallon dry sump reservoir feeding his pump to keep it bubble free and a radiator sized cooler to keep it cool but it worked and was dependable.
 

ntsqd

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It might be a clamp made for silicone hose - possibly purchased from Pegasus Racing Supply - I can't recall.

Todd Z.
Easiest place for me to buy them is one of thier stores. Note that it's not the least expensive, just the easiest. West Marine Silicone hoses are where I first became aware of those clamps, but since then I try to use them on all project vehicles anywhere I can't easily not use a hose clamp on any hose.

The pump in Snowball is a Saginaw "canned ham" from an E-250, only with a modified version of the Chevy 1t's remote reservoir housing on it. -10AN feed line of about 10" long. Slightly downhill with a tube 90° hose end at the reservoir (pointed up) and a 45¯ tube type hose end at the pump. Yeller's noise description is pretty accurate. This happened at sea level.
As originally laid out the system had a regular hydraulic system spin-on filter in the return line. Early in trying to figure out the cause of the cavitation I by-passed and removed it. When I put my reservoir back I will be re-installing that too. It just about doubles the fluid in the system. It was a discussion with a guy at Lee PS that put me onto needing hydro-head pressure. From reading this thread it sounds like it isn't always needed, but it never hurts to have it.

Lee told me something interesting when I sent them the steering box and the pump off the Wagon (one of the type of pump found on LSx engines, is that the 'CBR' pump?). They don't rebuild those with the expectation of reusing the OEM reservoir. Those come back converted to a -10AN inlet and you must run a remote reservoir.

This is the pressure relief valve that I've added to my own fabricated reservoir: https://www.mcmaster.com/1093K3/

And as I'm rather proud of it in spite of my deteriorating AL welding skills, some linked pics of said reservoir:
Pic_1
Pic_2
Pic_3
Pic_4
Finished
Early Test Fit
What I made it from
 
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