Extending stock radius arms vs new cage arms

[Rockin69er]

This pic is with stock radius arms and drop brackets and Jeffs superflex 5.5 SL, No body lift. I have since put Cage arms on because my superduty had a tighter turning radius!! 37's and no rubbing;D ;D ;D I like the Cage arms for all around driving.

 

[bronko69er]

Justin's pics will show how I did it.
Cliff notes version: slip rectangular tubing over the arms, weld bolt into end, use stock bushings.

BTW the stock bushings flex more than the springs allow so Heims are not necessary with the extended arms.

 

[jpalmer]

Here are some pics showing the clearance at full lock. I was surprised how much extra space I actually had. I am also posting the pics of the radius arm build. There is not as many as I thought, and they are not the best but you get the idea. I'll let the narration come from the horse's (Jesse's) mouth. Just to save his reputation, Jesse was welding these with my buddies Hobart 110 amp welder with a busted rheostat so the line speed was constantly changing... Just looking out for your rep buddy. ;D

 

[Tito]

Hey, who invited the Tin Man???? ;D

 

[bludorbronc]

There are many flaws in the Bronco suspension for flex.The front shock bottom mount is only made for up and down travel and is too short. To get the shock to move on the radius mount I make a shock joint that acts like a U-joint that moves in all directions and an F250 mount needs installed to fit a longer shock to use all the spring drop.The trac rod is designed for no travel, to fix this the trac rod frame mounting end needs cut off and a rubicon express joint needs to be installed for up and down plus back and forth movement.The stock radius frame mount is made for stock lift, put on a lift and the bushings are very limited to down travel,instead of leaving them alone I cut them off the frame ,install them on the radius arm and then weld them back to the frame with them being 90 degrees to the arms and not the frame thus giving lots of travel back. The stock C-bushing is good but only available in stock degrees.Using poly C-bushings for alighment tightens that joint making movement hard,I take mine and leave the highest point alone to maintain fit but feather the edges down for a looser fit to allow more back and forth movement. Most of this can be done cheaply and yeilds travel. And you must have soft springs.Any way this is what I've done and are satisfied with my travel.

 

[bronko69er]

You forgot my favorite ones!
Gotta love the caveman brow....
Arg! You hold, Me weld!

 

[jpalmer]

Sorry about that, I wasn't sure the site would allow your ugly mug to be posted... ;D

 

[broncbuster]

What about wristed arms? saw that set up the other day, seems pretty flexy to me.....

 

[commoncold]

Sorry for the thread high-jack, but this topic got me thinkin'

I'm no expert on radius arms, so before $600+ is spent, I think I'd better ask of your opinions

I changed my ideas about my resto-mod, it will now be partially used for off-roading. With a new carb and all that untamed horse power on the 351...I can't resist. Were talking maybe 20% off road and 80% on. And the off-roading is flat mudding. All of this means it will be abused but does not need flex.

As of right now my steering is so bad that I can't even drive to to any trails. I know at least that caster adjustment is necessary, so I'm wondering about my two options. Right now I got: 9 degrees of negative caster (trying to get it to 3-4 degrees positive), 7 degree bushings, stock arms. I could go the expensive route and buy new extended arms, or I could buy the $200 drop brackets for the stock arms. So lemme ask if the extra $400 for the extended arms is going to give me noticeably better stability on road rather than in-expensive drop brackets? Basically, are new arms worth it?

Thanks,
Dan

 

[welndmn]

IF you have the time and the skill, a 3 link will preform better then that radius arms.
IF not, I would just extend your current arms, I think the Duff/cage arms are nice, I would just have a heart attack paying that much money for them.

 

[bigmuddy]

Commoncold if you are running mud and street only, you don't need to spend the coin on expensive arms or really longs either. The drop radius bracket will work fine for the money and aggravation and get you where you need to be. For mud you want the most horsepower and a stiffer suspension to keep the tires in the mud and spinning.

Ben

 

[bigmuddy]

bronko69er, what was the size and thickness of the tube you used to build the arms? Too, how in hell did you get enough pentration with the 110v or did you preheat everything?

Ben

 

[bronko69er]

bronko69er, what was the size and thickness of the tube you used to build the arms? Too, how in hell did you get enough pentration with the 110v or did you preheat everything?

Ben

The size pictued is 1.5" x 3" x 1/8"wall.
I've also built them with 1/4" wall but it takes alot more prep work on the arms to get them to fit in the tube.
For serious rock abuse I'd recoomened the 1/4" wall. For general purpose road and trail use, I felt that the 1/8" wall would hold up.

Penetration you ask? Its not the size of the welder, its how you use it ......Proper joint prep, multi-pass, no pre-heating.

 

[DanWheeler]

IF you have the time and the skill, a 3 link will preform better then that radius arms.
IF not, I would just extend your current arms, I think the Duff/cage arms are nice, I would just have a heart attack paying that much money for them.

I do have the time and skill and also the interest in building a 3 link but I don't want to do that unless the gains are worth it. When you say "perform better" do you just mean articulation or are there other factors?

dan

 

[welndmn]

Suspension is more about everything else, flex coming in almost last.
With a 3 link you can tune in Anti-Dive and change your roll center.
Doing this, you can tune in your weight transfer to how you like it, where when climbing it increases traction.
I am sorry, I really don't know how to word it all over the web.
I would suggest going to pirate 4x4 .com and search for "The god of suspension" its a great thread where you can learn a lot.

 

[DanWheeler]

Suspension is more about everything else, flex coming in almost last.
With a 3 link you can tune in Anti-Dive and change your roll center.
Doing this, you can tune in your weight transfer to how you like it, where when climbing it increases traction.
I am sorry, I really don't know how to word it all over the web.
I would suggest going to pirate 4x4 .com and search for "The god of suspension" its a great thread where you can learn a lot.

I didn't think 3-link (no triangulation) allowed you to make those kinds of adjustments. Essentially our stock radius arms are 3 link, right?

what would be the difference between a 3-link with heims and stock Bronco suspension? 3 link is 2 radius arms and a panhard, right? and then something to keep the axle from rotating from torque.

 

[bronko69er]

I believe he means a triangulated 3 link.

 

[welndmn]

Stock, they are just Radius arms.
3 link can come in wishbone, where you have 2 lowers and 1 Y like upper.
The one I am suggesting is a 3 link where you have 2 lowers, 1 upper, and a trac bar (its a 3 link even when it has 4 attachment points).
With this style, most of your adjustment come from that 1 upper link, location on the axle and frame relavent to the lower links, preload on the link, and length.

 

[DanWheeler]

Stock, they are just Radius arms.
3 link can come in wishbone, where you have 2 lowers and 1 Y like upper.
The one I am suggesting is a 3 link where you have 2 lowers, 1 upper, and a trac bar (its a 3 link even when it has 4 attachment points).
With this style, most of your adjustment come from that 1 upper link, location on the axle and frame relavent to the lower links, preload on the link, and length.

just out of curiosity, what do you think about what are basically radius arms with heims that have a saddle about halfway along the radius arms that connects to a tower on the axle on both sides to stop the axle from rotating forward or back. Does this type have a particular name? It seems like it would be easy to build while still using a panhard and would leave all the complicated science out of the equation. (the part I don't trust myself with)

 

[67EB_in_619]

I run Cage arms.. the extended length also helps smooth out the bumps when lifted since the axles doesnt have to travel forward as much to travel up (picture the arc of the radius when compressed/extended). The built in caster made steering better with less correction (more even bushing) in the bushings. The allowance for bigger/tires made the turning radius insane. The heims on the end make for a little forgiveness when welding in the new brackets to true up the front axle.

They are STOUT. I was told by the guys @ Cage to be sure you have bump stops as the frame WILL bend, not the arms if they smack hard enough.

They do soften up the front end more. Those frame side bushings on the stock set up apparently not only limit articulation, but they dampen some too. I want different/more shocks up front (currently have only a single cage shock).

I went through all of this too when I bought mine and decided .. do it once.. do it right. You can save some money by spending some time.. but my time isnt free so when I factored that in.. the cage arms were pretty easy decision.