Ford Racing Engine with E303 Cam behaving badly

[anoblefox]

Another thing that can effect the mass air circuit is not using the correct starter solenoid. In this case there will be NO codes present. I have posted this here before, on mass air computers you MUST use the late mustang style diode protected solenoids, otherwise you will have driveability problems at some time.
For those wanting a more technical explanation; Without a diode to provide an alternate path of back current when the solenoid coil collapses, this potentially harmful back EMF (spike) goes right back to the mass air part of the computer. There were service bullitens regarding this way back, thats the only reason I was able to learn this.
I still strongly feel that the E 303 is not a good choice for a bronco or truck, period. Also there are many possible causes for computer controled vehicles to experiance driveability problems and there will always be some very good recommendations from forum members here.
I am not trying to be a hero here, but instead sharing some hard earned first hand knowledge.

 

[DirtDonk]

Regarding the vacuum leak possibilities, if any of your upper plenum ports are capped off with those rubber boots, check them all. The materials they use these days in some brands are crap.
I've had several deteriorate on brand new un-driven engines in less than 3 months. While others lasted almost a year!

Tracking down odd running issues on several 5.0's has almost always netted a few leaks from these ports. And anyone who's played around with different Ford setups knows that some of those manifolds can have a TON of unused vacuum fittings and ports.
I've seen as few as 3, and as many as 7 different places to attach a hose (think Explorer!) and unless they're permanently capped, they're a potential leak.

Paul

 

[broncnaz]

I'd vote vacuum leak as well. its easy to have a leak on the lower manifold that comes and goes. you may want to try retorquing the lower manifold bolts. although with time the gasket may already be bad and that might not work.

 

[ericbee]

My vote is an MSD Atomic EFI is installed. Is that what you got in there?

 

[Lmfp]

I dont have efi but i had a similar problems actually compounded a bit more. I had very low idle vacuum and no first gear on my transmission. I re-sealed my intake, carb, ports. Turns out the markings on my aftermarket harmonic ballancer were off by around 10 degrees. So if i was showing 10 degree advance it was actually top dead center. So i bumped it up to 20 which is around 10ish btc. Idle vac is way up and all my gears work and it runs like a bat out of hell. Just my experience.

 

[BobbyGlatz]

Thanks again everyone for your input. I am trying to get chuck from BC Bronco's to have a look at this thread to see if he can shed some light on your ideas. Hopefully he will have a look at this this week. So far I am going to take it to the local dyno shop that was identified for me. They are going to to the smoke test for the vacuum leak and then dyno it.

 

[chuck]

I am not much of an engine guy but I recently had BC Bronco's put a ford racing 302 EFI with headers and AOD transmissions and all the good stuff. Problem is since I got it back it idles poorly, dies when put into gear. (despite 2500 torque converter) One day it idles fine and others it is intolerable. Also, the power for the engine is at the high RPM's and I would greatly prefer torque over high rev power. Overall it has been an unpleasant experience.

I have been told that it is a vacuum problem related to the cam. Problem is I don't know about replacing the cam for fear that it will mess things up worse.

(I have already worked with chuck at BC Bronco's and he is out of ideas. Initially he tried to smooth things out but couldn't and now sort of feels that he has done his best and it is my problem.) Anyone have any suggestions.

Someone suggested taking to a dyno tune place but I am in deep south texas (McAllen) and the nearest place that I know about is in houston. Plus I am trying to keep costs down.

Before reading on I need to correct a few small things. First I installed a ford racing 302. That was what you said you wanted, If you had said "I want low end torque I would have susjested a 351w. I have installed many, most with no trouble. We did have a couple that would not idle like yours and found that the TC stalll speed was too low, changed them and your. That seemed to fix all of them including yours. I also replaced your motor from FR when it burned up and followed all of their susjestions to fix the heat and stall problem. I worked with you to fix all the problems up to the point that you started having others repair/change parts that you and he decided might be bad or might work better. When you have another mechanic work on your EB I have no control over what he does. Your guy installed a new dist. and I think it caused the engine to over heat and you drove it until it did. I have not control of what either of you do but to help you find the problem I talk to your mechainic and try to help but can still not control what he does. The engine is well out of the ford warranty. I know that it is frustrating to have a problem that is a bitch to find and I don't mind helping but I don't think you are being fair about my part in this. I installed the engine and trans per ford directions correctly.

 

[chuck]

What is your idle set at when you are just sitting there in park? Have you tried putting some more timing in it? Does the idle fluctuate? Do you have a EGR valve? Has the computer been adjusted to match your set up? What heads are you running? Have you checked the rocker arm adjustment? This motor will always make high end power and not torque. That is how it's built.

That is not a overly huge cam and plenty of Mustang guys run that cam no vaccum issues, so I wouldn't think that is your problem.

I had a Little trouble finding this post so am running behind so will answer each as I can. Check with ford racing for all the specs. It is the 340 hp 302, this is the 2ed engine, the first over heated and failed. No EGR. RJM harness 89 mustang EFI basic stock. had 19# ink. 65 MM TB, comp dist. Aluminum heads E 303 cam The rocker arms are adjusted by ford and the engine was tested by ford. When last I saw this EB the idle was fine. But before it would surge at idle sometimes.

 

[chuck]

Dyno tune, I installed about the same combo and a dyno tune straightened it out

edit:

just checked the cam specs the one i worked on was an x303 cam, the e303 is a milder cam, i agree with everyone else here, something is wrong gotta fix that before a dyno tune.

start checking things as mentioned:
vacuum leak BOTH ENGINES HAD THE SAME PROBLEM. Per fords required test the first engine did not have vac. leaks
MAF sensor been changed by my shop and his a few times
harness connections checked and replaced with 2ed engine just to be sure
fuel pressure3 8-40

I don't use K&n filters on MAF setups I use a dry filter ( AEM )Not a bad idea to check the above again was stock OEM



Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

It would be a good idea to recheck these things anyway.

 

[chuck]

he put a new motor and tranny in and it runs like shit and its your problem? thats not too cool from BC to do that to u. do u have the specs for the motor? - e303 is not really a hot cam, its mid range. u should not be having issues with it at idle. ur issue has nothing to do with the cam, unless its flat from improper break in.

that motor and cam should be about right, i dont know why they are telling u its a top end build- the e303 is basicly stock. .

Read my first post. R oller cams do not have break in but ford runs the engines before they sale them anyway. I did not say it was a top end cam.

 

[chuck]

That does not sound like problem directly attributable to the "tune" to me. That sounds like there is actually a glitch somewhere in cabling, sensor(s) or the like.

I agree, that is why I swapped the harness with the engine. along with the computor. Did not help

 

[chuck]

i assume mass air flow system? i have chased a deal similar to this, first one was a probe, the second a v-10 motorhome. they had both been thru numerous shops and techs and nobody could find anything. fuel pressure, vac leaks, diagnostic showed nothing. i ended up finding that the mass airflow sensor had foreign substance on the little wires. the probe was some kind of fuzz, the rv was a june bug hung up on it from the guy replacing his air filter. not saying that's what it is but it is easy to check. such a simple thing created hell!

Worth looking at

 

[chuck]

I think you're jumping to a lot of conclusions here. I, personally, from the OP's post can't tell where the engine came from. Who supplied it? In what condition was it in? He didn't say it was new. It may have been, but the problem could have been created by the engine builder, not BCB. Without knowing more information, I think this was a bit unwarranted, or at the very least premature.

That being said, I agree with you that the E303 really shouldn't be a problem.

Bobby, what ECU are you using? What injectors? MAF? Where all sensors new?

Have you pulled codes? If so, what are they?

Have you tested the IAC valve? Checked for vacuum leaks?

Make sure you have good ground to the ECU.

Sorry, the engine is a crate motor form Ford Racing
The ECU was a A9P we also tryed a new A9P and a used A9l
The only codes were the usual purge, EGR kind
Checked all grds and installed all new sensors at least one time.

 

[chuck]

Over the last year and a half I think I have replaced every think from the engine to the wiring and all in between. I believe Bob still has a problem and we must have over looked something. I was reluctent to dig into the engine because of the ford warranty(a good thing on the first one) but that is gone now so my best guess is the cam and computor can not work well together when other outside things like eng temp. and amb. temp cause some sensor to go out of range. Of the 9 engines we did the year before last only 2 had this problem. The IAB fixed the other. Even the adjustable IAB plate did not fix this one.

 

[BobbyGlatz]

Wanted to thank everyone. I found a mustang mechanic locally that did a tune and put in a "chip". So far it runs great doesn't die or lope. seems to run much smoother and even smells far less rich! I am greatful for the help of you all. Thanks! Bob

 

[EFI Guy]

Glad you got it worked out.

What aluminum heads are you running if you don't mind me asking?

I have found that the E303 does ok with the stock Mustang heads, if you upgrade even to GT40's I'd recommend a custom tune to get idle correct.

 

[anoblefox]

the E cam was meant for stock heads. I have considerable experiance with this cam, having installed it in several vehicles when it first became available. I had two customers that actually listened to a mustang with the E cam and insisted that it was the cam they wanted, both early mustangs (much lighter vehicles); I did all I could to convence them to go with something milder. Both of them ended up having me install the stock cam at their expense. Granted, nowadays chips and programing is available for EFI to help the idle quality.
Too may times it is all about the numbers, everyone seems only to look at the HP numbers and not at what RPM it takes to get those numbers. I firmly believe that the E303 has no place in any bronco other than one used for racing only.
Some will disagree, some perhaps, just to be disagreable.
The only reason I give for this post is to hopefully encourage anyone who thinks they want this cam, to think carefully, so as not to make the wrong cam choice that they will have to live with.

 

[matts460]

Im a toyota tech and yes a Mass air meter will cause idle issues!!!!!!! LOL I to have found bugs/debris stuck in the filements inside. Also my Bro is a Hybrid tech and we have had few Prius's come in DOA because of bugs/debris stuck in the meter!!

 

[73azbronco]

the E cam was meant for stock heads. I have considerable experiance with this cam, having installed it in several vehicles when it first became available. I had two customers that actually listened to a mustang with the E cam and insisted that it was the cam they wanted, both early mustangs (much lighter vehicles); I did all I could to convence them to go with something milder. Both of them ended up having me install the stock cam at their expense. Granted, nowadays chips and programing is available for EFI to help the idle quality.
Too may times it is all about the numbers, everyone seems only to look at the HP numbers and not at what RPM it takes to get those numbers. I firmly believe that the E303 has no place in any bronco other than one used for racing only.
Some will disagree, some perhaps, just to be disagreable.
The only reason I give for this post is to hopefully encourage anyone who thinks they want this cam, to think carefully, so as not to make the wrong cam choice that they will have to live with.

Thank you, a voice of reason.

I love the e303.


In a mustang strip car.