Frame off BP 306 Build Questions

[NickC24]

With all this time on my hands from COVID I have been finalizing my build plan. Im starting a frame off build and am planning on getting the Blue Print 306. I have some questions and I'm hoping some of you guys have done what Im planning:

BP 306 Sniper EFI
4R70W (with Quick 4 Controller)
Stock Dana 20
Explorer Front Serp
32" Tires
3-1/2" suspension lift
PS, PB, and all Disc Brakes
Will be using for 95% street driving

Here are some of my questions:

-What kind of issues come up with the 306 to 4r70w (flex plate, balancing, torque converter, etc)
-Does the 306/4R70W fit under the hood without a body lift? My plan is to not have one as I don't like the big gaps in the front/rear but Im willing to go with a 1" if it will make things easier and fit better.
-What kind of header options are there for the 306/4R70W? I was looking at the TBP long tubes but do they work with this setup? I heard there can be some issues with them fitting around the tranny. Also they can't be used with P heads so is that an issue with he 306? Anybody deal with this?
-What gear ratios for the front and rear with the HP/Torque of the 306 and gears of the 4R70W?
-I know the explorer serp is not a direct bolt to the BP306 but what exactly has to be changed (balancer, timing cover, etc)?
-Best ignition box and coil for this engine? What other wiring does this set-up need other than general car harness?
-Any other issues that might come up that y'all have dealt with(aside from the hundreds unknowns that always come up from these builds)

I have done a lot of research on all of this but can't find detailed answers and solutions. Hopefully the best classic car community on the web can help me out.
I know it can be hard to type out all of this so PM and I will give you call if that's easier for some of you and you're up for an old fashioned phone call. Appreciate any help y'all can provide.

 

[DirtDonk]

-What kind of issues come up with the 306 to 4r70w (flex plate, balancing, torque converter, etc)

Do you know for sure which rotating assembly BluePrint uses? Is it 28oz or 50oz imbalance?
You'll need a flexplate that works with the 4R70's torque converter, but that has the right imbalance.
I think we can assume 50oz, but this is not the time to assume!

-Does the 306/4R70W fit under the hood without a body lift? My plan is to not have one as I don't like the big gaps in the front/rear but Im willing to go with a 1" if it will make things easier and fit better.

The engine might, but 1" makes it a better chance. What intake manifold is in use?
But for the transmission it's a HUGE help from what I understand. I can't remember the last time I read that someone tried to install a 4R70, or any other modern trans for that matter, without at least a 1" body lift.

-What kind of header options are there for the 306/4R70W? I was looking at the TBP long tubes but do they work with this setup? I heard there can be some issues with them fitting around the tranny. Also they can't be used with P heads so is that an issue with he 306? Anybody deal with this?

What heads does BP use? If not factory P heads, then this is not an issue.
Any header that fits a 302/351 head should fit yours unless they're using the extra large port and wide bolt spacing version.
Again, you need to check the specs of the engine here.

So to the transmission, yes it has been an issue occasionally even with shorties. Hopefully someone has used that combination here and will let you know. My '68 has the P heads, but is using stock Explorer manifolds, so clearance with the trans was never in question.

-What gear ratios for the front and rear with the HP/Torque of the 306 and gears of the 4R70W?

So we don't have to look it up again, what are the numbers for the engine?
But more importantly are you going to stick with the 32" tires as far as you know? If so then 4.11's might be the lowest I go.
I bet the engine would pull even with 3.50's but you'd be leaving a LOT on the table and not near as much fun. Hard to say about fuel economy though, with a heavy lifted truck's aerodynamics.

Without knowing the exact diameter of the tires yet, the general assumption with 4.11's in overdrive with a roughly 31" tall tire would put you at roughly 2100 rpm or so at 65mph.
Personally I think that's as low as I'd want to go in the rpm range at highway speeds. Stock you'd be over 2800 rpm with 3-speed and 4.11's, so that's still a big improvement.
The 4.11 just seems like a good all around compromise gear.

-I know the explorer serp is not a direct bolt to the BP306 but what exactly has to be changed (balancer, timing cover, etc)?

Why is it not a direct bolt-on? It's still just a 302/5.0 engine, right? Should bolt right on then.
You have to run EVERYTHING on the front though. Which means taking your front cover and water pump and damper off, and replacing it all with the Explorer stuff.
But it does just bolt right on.

Again though, this is assuming a 50oz engine assembly. Make sure what you've got and let us know.

-Best ignition box and coil for this engine? What other wiring does this set-up need other than general car harness?

Not sure what is "best" these days. Lots of very usable stuff out there.
What is recommended for the Sniper? Are you going to have it control the timing, or keep the ignition stand-alone? Maybe one of the MAP sensor versions from MSD would be good for that.

-Any other issues that might come up that y'all have dealt with(aside from the hundreds unknowns that always come up from these builds)

I have done a lot of research on all of this but can't find detailed answers and solutions. Hopefully the best classic car community on the web can help me out.

It's all here in gory detail already. Pretty sure it's even in one of the tech articles listed here. But one article that covers all aspects of Sniper, Explorer front drive, 4R70w trans, custom headers and ignition all at one time, with pictures and clear explanations? Not sure that exists yet.
But if it does, someone will know.

Good luck.

Paul

 

[NickC24]

Do you know for sure which rotating assembly BluePrint uses? Is it 28oz or 50oz imbalance?
You'll need a flexplate that works with the 4R70's torque converter, but that has the right imbalance.
I think we can assume 50oz, but this is not the time to assume!



The engine might, but 1" makes it a better chance. What intake manifold is in use?
But for the transmission it's a HUGE help from what I understand. I can't remember the last time I read that someone tried to install a 4R70, or any other modern trans for that matter, without at least a 1" body lift.



What heads does BP use? If not factory P heads, then this is not an issue.
Any header that fits a 302/351 head should fit yours unless they're using the extra large port and wide bolt spacing version.
Again, you need to check the specs of the engine here.

So to the transmission, yes it has been an issue occasionally even with shorties. Hopefully someone has used that combination here and will let you know. My '68 has the P heads, but is using stock Explorer manifolds, so clearance with the trans was never in question.



So we don't have to look it up again, what are the numbers for the engine?
But more importantly are you going to stick with the 32" tires as far as you know? If so then 4.11's might be the lowest I go.
I bet the engine would pull even with 3.50's but you'd be leaving a LOT on the table and not near as much fun. Hard to say about fuel economy though, with a heavy lifted truck's aerodynamics.

Without knowing the exact diameter of the tires yet, the general assumption with 4.11's in overdrive with a roughly 31" tall tire would put you at roughly 2100 rpm or so at 65mph.
Personally I think that's as low as I'd want to go in the rpm range at highway speeds. Stock you'd be over 2800 rpm with 3-speed and 4.11's, so that's still a big improvement.
The 4.11 just seems like a good all around compromise gear.



Why is it not a direct bolt-on? It's still just a 302/5.0 engine, right? Should bolt right on then.
You have to run EVERYTHING on the front though. Which means taking your front cover and water pump and damper off, and replacing it all with the Explorer stuff.
But it does just bolt right on.

Again though, this is assuming a 50oz engine assembly. Make sure what you've got and let us know.



Not sure what is "best" these days. Lots of very usable stuff out there.
What is recommended for the Sniper? Are you going to have it control the timing, or keep the ignition stand-alone? Maybe one of the MAP sensor versions from MSD would be good for that.





It's all here in gory detail already. Pretty sure it's even in one of the tech articles listed here. But one article that covers all aspects of Sniper, Explorer front drive, 4R70w trans, custom headers and ignition all at one time, with pictures and clear explanations? Not sure that exists yet.
But if it does, someone will know.

Good luck.

Paul

Wow thanks for the response.

Its 50Oz external balance

Yeah that's what I have gathered on the site for the body lift. Anybody able to pull this off with out a lift?

These are the heads (BluePrint Aluminum Cylinder Heads -HP9009). I will do some research. Anybody use the the long tubes with the 4R70W?

Here are the numbers:HP & Torque: 365 HP / 365 FT LBS. I know for sure that I will not have anything over 33's.

What I meant by not bolt on is basically that you can't just install the explorer serp on what comes from Blueprint without modifying. Just trying to see what is necessary to mate them together. Anybody do this?

Thanks for asking these questions. More research to do.

 

[sanndmann3]

Take a look at this link from the tech library. Should give you a good idea of how the install goes.
http://classicbroncos.com/tech/explorer-5-0-serpentine-accessory-drive-belt-conversion
Pretty much a bolt up. You will need to swap the timing cover and harmonic for the explorer pcs. all the other brackets are external and bolt to the front of the heads. Good luck and let me know if you are interested in a kit...

 

[Bronco-Brian]

I tried the 4R70W w/o body lift and stock body poly mounts (These are about 5/8 thick). Transfer case hits the bed supports. I also hate the body lift look, so I built my own 3/4" mounts and stacked them onto the others for a total body mount stack of 1 1/4". Works perfect for underbed clearance and you can hardly tell it has a body lift. Transfer case clears the bed by 1/4" with this set-up.

 

[ngsd]

Bp306

I have the same engine that I am just installing. Explorer serp also but using and AX15. 50oz imbalance looking for which balancer/pulley to use too.

 

[ngsd]

Take a look at this link from the tech library. Should give you a good idea of how the install goes.
http://classicbroncos.com/tech/explorer-5-0-serpentine-accessory-drive-belt-conversion
Pretty much a bolt up. You will need to swap the timing cover and harmonic for the explorer pcs. all the other brackets are external and bolt to the front of the heads. Good luck and let me know if you are interested in a kit...

Do you have a part number or recommendation for the balancer?

 

[NickC24]

I have the same engine that I am just installing. Explorer serp also but using and AX15. 50oz imbalance looking for which balancer/pulley to use too.

Looks awesome. Yeah that's what I am trying to find out. A lot of sources say to do this but don't say which one to actually get. I was thinking about contacting Blue Print directly as I have heard they have a good customer service team. Might contact Maxlider as well.

 

[NickC24]

I tried the 4R70W w/o body lift and stock body poly mounts (These are about 5/8 thick). Transfer case hits the bed supports. I also hate the body lift look, so I built my own 3/4" mounts and stacked them onto the others for a total body mount stack of 1 1/4". Works perfect for underbed clearance and you can hardly tell it has a body lift. Transfer case clears the bed by 1/4" with this set-up.

That is such a good idea. I didn't even think of making my own. What did you make yours out of? Have any pics?

 

[Jaybr]

I’ve got the same motor (actually 2)sitting in the garage waiting for my 4r70w rebuild to get finished up. I pulled the timing cover and brackets off an 97 mountaineer motor and plan to buy a new balancer.

The motor with sniper comes with an hei distributor. I’m no expert on ignition systems but i plan on starting out with that and see how it does.

I also have a new painless harness and Dakota digital gauge that will all go in with the motor, although you shouldn’t need any of that.

The second one is going in my 76 with an AX15 that I’ll be picking up at SC. Also picking up new tanks with in-tank fuel pumps.

Both trucks will be getting 1” body lifts, which I’m also not a fan of.

BTW: the dyno sheets that came with mine both show higher than advertised #s.


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[bronconut73]

Really hard to beat the WH 1" body lift. The lift is integrated into the poly bushing.
Stellar. Can't even tell its body lifted. Just that little bit of room helps.

You can run the WH conversion pulley on your eb harmonic balancer. But if ya need the reluctor wheel for timing a stock Ford efi then you can get a rebalanced Explorer harmonic balancer/pulley combo from Damper Dudes.
But I think The Blue Print SBF is a modern sbf so you should be able to just install the Explorer balancer with no adjustment needed.

Sandmann as noted above has the Explorer Serp swap as a kit ready to sell.
Look into it.

 

[Calibronc66]

I have the 306 bp motor also just took it for a drive for the first time. What I did on the serpentine was use wild horses explorer crank pulley with the dampener that came with the motor. Then I wasn’t a fan of the explorer power steering setup so I used wild horses explorer Saginaw power steering bracket. Had to use a bigger spacer on it thinking due to the aluminum heads. O and I had to switch out the timing cover I’m sure if I would have thought about it blueprint would have installed
It . Here’s a pic I had them paint mine black and swapped the valve covers.

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[NickC24]

Really hard to beat the WH 1" body lift. The lift is integrated into the poly bushing.
Stellar. Can't even tell its body lifted. Just that little bit of room helps.

You can run the WH conversion pulley on your eb harmonic balancer. But if ya need the reluctor wheel for timing a stock Ford efi then you can get a rebalanced Explorer harmonic balancer/pulley combo from Damper Dudes.
But I think The Blue Print SBF is a modern sbf so you should be able to just install the Explorer balancer with no adjustment needed.

Sandmann as noted above has the Explorer Serp swap as a kit ready to sell.
Look into it.

Yeah I am probably going to bite the bullet and get the WH 1" BL.

I have an Explorer 5.0 with the Explorer front serp and 4R70W already in my Bronco so I am planning to try to use as much from my 5.0 as possible. So you're saying I can use the harmonic balancer from my current 5.0 on the BP306? If so do I have to do anything to it or will it bolt up?

 

[NickC24]

I have the 306 bp motor also just took it for a drive for the first time. What I did on the serpentine was use wild horses explorer crank pulley with the dampener that came with the motor. Then I wasn’t a fan of the explorer power steering setup so I used wild horses explorer Saginaw power steering bracket. Had to use a bigger spacer on it thinking due to the aluminum heads. O and I had to switch out the timing cover I’m sure if I would have thought about it blueprint would have installed
It . Here’s a pic I had them paint mine black and swapped the valve covers.

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That is awesome. I really like the black look. I might go that route as well. How did it drive/sound? Can you post a vid of it running? I have only seen a couple and they sound awesome. This might be a dumb question but what timing cover did you have to use to make the explorer serp work? Also why didn't you like the explorer PS pump and brakes?

 

[bronconut73]

Yeah I am probably going to bite the bullet and get the WH 1" BL.

I have an Explorer 5.0 with the Explorer front serp and 4R70W already in my Bronco so I am planning to try to use as much from my 5.0 as possible. So you're saying I can use the harmonic balancer from my current 5.0 on the BP306? If so do I have to do anything to it or will it bolt up?

Move all of the Explorer stuff over.
All of it.
Timing chain bolt without the eccentric for a mech fuel pump.
And the Explorer timing chain cover but you already knew that.

If your BP 306 is a 50 oz. HB motor then you are fine to just switch over.

But if it's a 28 oz. HB motor then you need the WH pulley or the Damperdudes.com rebalanced Explorer HB. They just make it a 28 oz. HB. If you do not need the Ford reluctor wheel on the stock Explorer HB then this doesn't matter.

Balance wise I think the BP 306 is a 50 oz HB motor so you should be able to just switch over. For the record I have had a great experience with my stock Explorer ps pump with 35" MTZ's.

 

[Calibronc66]

You have to run a 96-01 explorer timing chain cover so the explorer water pump will bolt up. I upgraded the water pump to a flow kooler.
It was my preference to get rid of the explorer pump cause I’m not a fan of the resevoir tank and liked the idea of everything being more compact and clean. I posted two videos of it first fire and then first drive under What have you done to your Bronco today?


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[ngsd]

So i pulled the timing cover off the BP 306 and started to swap the Explorer cover. The Explorer cover is not as deep as the one that came off of the 306 and hits what I believe is the oil slinger? There are embossed areas inside the explorer cover that interfere. Also, I assume everyone drops the oil pan and replaces the entire gasket rather than patch the area with silicone under at the front when it comes off and tears the gasket so that is needed as well if so.

Pictures attached. Thoughts?

 

[Calibronc66]

That’s the fuel
Pump unbolt and remove the two
Round circles then bolt it back up you don’t need it


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[Calibronc66]

And I did replace the oil pan gasket


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[ngsd]

That’s the fuel
Pump unbolt and remove the two
Round circles then bolt it back up you don’t need it


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Thanks I realized that as soon as I posted it, I wasn't even thinking when I said it!