front end rolls side 2 side

[Funrunr]

I recently swapped drum brakes on my wifes 74 to 78 disc. I replaced ball joints and tie rod ends,along with wheel alignment Now at about 45 MPH the front end feels like it is gonna flip the truck. it don't have bump steering, it feels like it is missing a sway bar which it never had, and never did before the swap. The rest of the front suspension is stock. Any help or suggestions is appreciated. Thanks, Mark

 

[73stallion]

what tie rod ends did you put on it? you need about a 3" or 4" longer tie rod to accomodate for the different knuckles. how did you set the allignment?

 

[broncnaz]

Not sure about needing a 3-4 in longer tierod but it does need to be longer maybe 1in and with a stock EB tierod and usually there will be adjustability issues with a stock tierod as it only adjusts one way.
78 knuckles mount the tierod lower than stock EB knuckles by about 2" maybe a little more. This creates a bumpsteer feeling. I went to a TRO swap after my 78/79 disc conversion because it developed slight bumpsteer. I installed a 3 way adjustable tierod to allow correct adjustments.
Did you get a printout from your alginment shop or did they tell you what they adjusted? Most shops will only adjust the toe in on these old trucks so any other issues are basically brushed aside.

Roll is really only caused by springs that are very soft and lightly valved shocks dont help any. Maybe your description needs work is it wandering ie hard to keep in a straight line?

 

[Funrunr]

I used stock replacement tie rods from Jeff's. It steers straight and bumps don't affect it too badly. It's hard to describe but if you were driving and just made a quick jerk back and forth once (as if you were checking the steering) it will feel real loose as if the truck was gonna roll, The faster you go the worse it feels. We didn't have this problem before I did the swap. Also there is play in the steering that wasn't there before. The alignment shop didn't give a print out or description of what was done other than adjust toe-in. Whether or not you can help, I do appreciate all input.Thanks, Mark

But I will make a suggestion to anyone thinking about buying used parts to do a swap,Buy the kit from Jeff's. I have over $700 in buying all the new parts when the kit cost under $600 I bought the used parts on this site for $200 and replaced everthing exept the knuckles, spindles, and calipers

 

[broncnaz]

Sounds like what we commonly decribe as wandering.
Did you use bushings in the knuckles to adapt the tie rods? If not that may be where the play is showing up.
You may want to check the steering box bolts make sure they are tight and check the rag joint if its worn it can cause extra play.

 

[Apogee]

Back to what broncnaz asked earlier...did you get the alignment results for your rig? Do you trust them? If so, post it up since it sounds like a combination of play in the system and poor alignment specs. The factory specs can be seriously lacking caster and still withing the acceptable range of values, so if they just went by the book, odds are that all they adjusted is the toe.

[rant]The last alignment shop I took mine to said they adjusted the toe and then I pointed out that they hadn't removed the tack-welded strip across the adjuster sleeve...busted. They didn't do anything except apologize for lying to my face, which frankly meant very little to me at that point. [/rant]

 

[carmi]

I would check the alignment results to see where they set toe in. These older vehicles with straight axles do not lend themselves to easy castor/camber adjustments. It would bet if they did anything, they only adjusted toe in / out. I have noticed that if I don't have atleast 1/8" toe-in then I get severe wandering issues. I like to set my toe-in at 1/4" to 3/16". It is amazing how much better it tracks just changing it from 1/8" to 1/4".

 

[DirtDonk]

I recently swapped drum brakes on my wifes 74 to 78 disc.

A good point was made about the rod ends. Stock '74 ends won't fit into the '78 steering arms tightly. BC sells some adapters to make it work.
That alone would supply enough play to keep things entertaining.

Did you adjust the wheel bearings according to spec?

Did you remove the trackbar at any point? You might check that out as well.

If nothing comes to mind, just do the test where a helper turns the steering wheel back and forth a quarter turn or so (enough to make the tires move) while you watch everything underneath. And I mean everything. Make sure that the full weight of the vehicle is on the ground though. Not with tires in the air. Won't work that way.
With this test you can find anything from a loose wheel bearing to a cracked frame and everything in between.

Paul

 

[Funrunr]

Wow guys! Thanks for all the information its looks like I have a lot of work this weekend. I will keep you informed on the results. Thanks again. Mark

 

[El Jefe]

i have a very similar issue after a 2.5" LBG lift and chebby disc conversion with all new parts:

i fabbed a trac bar raised mount on the axle so it is not dog tracking.
i dont have any bump steer
it will sometimes pull to one side under WOT (wide open throttle), sometimes under POT (part open throttle)

the inside shoulder of my brand new bfgs ATs is showing lack of conntact with the dusty pavement ; which i translate into too much toe-in. I got the correct c bushings installed when i put the lift on.

questions:
1. is my assumption correct on the toe-in?
2. can the stock steering linkage (tie rod and turnbuckle/sleeve) adjust to correct this given the fact that i went the chebby knuckle conversion?
3. although the truck is a 74, it came with a D30; which i replaced with the D44at the time of the lift,i reused the steering linkage without adjusting anything; so it would be a stock linkage, but adjusted to a D30, and now sitting in a D44 with chebby knuckles...will toe-in be the way to go? (the local aligment firestone dealer told me they would only be able to adjust toe-in but they didn't have the specs on their database and told me to call back to see if they got them from Hunter. At this point i am more inclined to adjust it meself.....any pointers?


sorry to jump in the thread like this; but this is where the search button got me..

 

[av bronco]

After I put my tro conversion on I had a simluar prob,turned out to be a combo of loose steering box bolts and pitmam arm slop at the steering box shaft. had to get a new arm, all good for now...

 

[broncnaz]

I think the pulling under throttle is normal especailly if you have a rear traction device. While toe in can cause tire wear issues so can camber early axles seem to have more camber than is needed as they were usually setup to run bias ply tires which needed more camber. You can fix it with either shims or ball joint adjusters.
1. you defintely need to check your toe in heres a link that will help you check/adjust it. http://www.bcbroncos.com/techtips08.html
2. Yes but I have a question did you use ch#vy knuckles? or just the brake parts. If you used ch#vy knuckles then your tierod ends may be the wrong size. There can also be issues with the ackerman angle do to using knuckles with different steering arm angles
3. Anytime any front end part is replaced you should check the toe in just to make sure its correct.

 

[El Jefe]

thanks for the link broncnaz.

as for the traction device- that makes all the sense since last time i drove the truck (from KS to MI about 7 years ago- i hadn't put in the EZ locker that it has now. so that may explain the torque steer.

i did use chebby knuckles as i understand that's what's furnished in the disc brake conversion packages (which is what i used). so you then mean that the tie rod may have an unintended amount of rotation about its axis that may be causing the wandering?

 

[broncnaz]

The ch#vy type disc conversions dont replace the knuckles at least I've never seen one sold that does. The Ford disc conversion requires knuckle replacement.
So unless you actually replaced your EB knuckles with ch#vy knuckles you should be ok as far as tierods go. Unless they are worn out then toe in will help for a little while.

 

[DirtDonk]

Tire wear on the inside can be camber, toe-in or both, as was mentioned.

Absolutely check and adjust your toe-in. You changed too much to have left your tie-rods the same. You might have gotten lucky, but most likely not.

Also as said, you don't need the GM knuckles. That's the whole point of the Chevy brake conversion. Did you put the kit together yourself with used parts? Or did you buy a "kit" from someone?
If you are using GM knuckles, I would have thought that by now you'd have noticed if your tie-rod ends were not a good tight fit into the holes.
You never know though. Might have been a borderline fit. Either way, it's worth re-checking to make sure your rod ends are good and solid in their holes.

Paul

 

[BroncoJAK]

Anyone notice this thread is over 3 months old?;D

 

[El Jefe]

Anyone notice this thread is over 3 months old?;D

not anymore it isnt- that's why i said sorry about hi-jacking the old post but better to have all this info in one post that to start a new one and go throught he same questions.

donk and broncnaz: both you are correct- i was thinking that i used Chebby knuckles but i didn't. it was chebby spindles. they came in a kit package for the disc conversion and nothing i pieced together...

and the 'wear' that i refer to is that after driving over dusty pavement; the inner shoulder is cleaner than the outer shoulder on the new tires. all ball joints on the knuckles are new at the time of the conversion, i don't perceive any loose joints but could be wrong.