full spool up front

[travisneville]

i did a search and read many comments. my question is for a 100% off road bronco will i hate this set up? i mostly rock crawl and want more traction up front. is it really impossible to turn with this set up??:?

 

[73bronco]

Everyone says it is impossible but I disagree. My front is spooled and I have no problem. I had no problem before the ram assist as well. It is hard on axles though! I can turn tighter than anyone in my crew and there are a couple of samurais. I like the idea that I KNOW it is locked and working. Seen too many trail issues with ARB and don't like the popping of the ez/aussie/detroit group. I mostly rock crawl as well. DO it! It is cheap so if you don't like it you can change it out easily enough without spending much more than you would have otherwise!

 

[broncomitch]

2x do it.
mine is welded front and back (almost the same thing)

it's hard on my powersteering pump (might just be getting old), and when the belt fling's off i can't steer at all..or...just not strong enough :-[
but my bracket got alittle funkyed up thus why the beld would fling off when it was under load and high rpm's. i just need to fix it and i bet it wouldn't come off again.
but it steers fine on the trail. on the street tho...little diffrent story,but i just unlock my hub's and it's like there is nothing there.

and if you want it to turn easyer but still have a wheel spin,just jump out and unlock a hub and that tire wont spin, unlike if you where open and it switch's back and forth. makes it more predictable.

 

[travisneville]

if i was to line up axle u joints would this help a all?

 

[73bronco]

No. Both tires are turning at the same speed straight ahead. It does not bind the ujoints in a manner in which they will help you to be able to turn easier.

 

[eb-nutt1]

I ran a spooled frt for 3+ years after breaking ez lockers and full detroits. If not running hydro assist or full hyd, it makes it alot easier to steer if you keep one hub unlocked till you really think you need it. Be sure you are running real good axles though: at the min. the new yukon hardcore(old warns), superiors, or the shizzles rcv's!

Brian

 

[broncojon68]

I currantly run a spooled rear in my (modified 68 Bronco 36"iroc's over 1200 rti cold duck'ed)only until I can afford a sellectable as fo all money is tight. It is hard to explain to the wife (boss) the $900 differential is cheaper than the added tire where of a spool. I live in the mountains with very twisty roads to get anywhere so the rear spool is driving me nuts.It would be nice to go unheard EVERYWHERE I go due to tire chirp.

 

[Broncobowsher]

It may or may not be OK. What kind of wheeling do you do?

Around here on tight twisty rocky trials it is a joke. Turn to full lock (needing full hydro or at least hydro assist) and the rig will plow a slight turn. Makes tight turns into 3, 5 sometimes 9 point turns. But go a few miles away and play int he dunes and they will do exactly what you want.

 

[jw0747]

it only requires that you either have the ability to bench press 400 lbs x 10 reps or ram assist steering.

 

[broncosbybart]

I haven't had a spool up front, but have kept my selectable locker engaged to see what it would do. Does steer, but is very slow to steer. It binds up pretty hard in the corners. A set of good axles are a MUST. That said, I'd never run a front spool. I'm running an OX locker. I ever break it, it will for sure be my own fault...

That said, my driving style is pretty conservative, given the cost of parts and that I am usually racing and try to finish well. Even when just crawling/trail running I try not to push the limits of my equipment.

Edit- if you are running an open diff right now and just want to try it, go for it. Just weld the spiders up and roll with it. You won't be out a whole lot (other than spider gears and an open carrier). If running stock shafts, expect bad things. I'd run with 1 hub unlocked until you need it engaged.

 

[russellmn]

It may or may not be OK. What kind of wheeling do you do?

Around here on tight twisty rocky trials it is a joke. Turn to full lock (needing full hydro or at least hydro assist) and the rig will plow a slight turn. Makes tight turns into 3, 5 sometimes 9 point turns. But go a few miles away and play int he dunes and they will do exactly what you want.

Front spool won't make your rig "plow" a turn, but a REAR spool will. Think about it, your tires are turned and they are spinning, they're not gonna pull the rig straight, they're gonna pull the way they're pointed.

The problem is when the rear locker is engaged (whether a spool, selectable, or auto locker that's seeing torque) the REAR tires will be pushing the vehicle straight and since the rear tires tend to have more traction than the fronts the rig plows through a turn.

If nothing else, run spool front and whatever in the rear and then twin stick your t-case so you can run front only. If you gotta steer tight disengage the rear axle and let the front pull you around.

 

[malonejy]

Before you do something like that, you need to go drive someone's that has it, spool/selectable locker. I'm not gonna argue with anything said above, but the handling is not the same. I'm not saying you can't turn, but it is completely different. I splurged for the ARB upfront and have no regrets and I love my spool in the rear.

If the wheels are locked, front or back, it will change how your rig turns. It's physics Good luck finding out what works for you.

James

 

[russellmn]

I'd definitely go along with what Malonejy said. It WILL handle/drive differently than open/open. If you can afford it, selectable f/r is the way to go, but that's a couple thousand just in diffs, still need gears, bearings, axles, etc... I ran ARB f/r on a couple rigs and found I left the front locked pretty much all the time and the rear was open more often than not.

 

[KyleQ]

if i was to line up axle u joints would this help a all?

No. Both tires are turning at the same speed straight ahead. It does not bind the ujoints in a manner in which they will help you to be able to turn easier.

You do realize if he doesn't have his joints in phase when he welds it he will destroy the axle joints? The joints MUST be in phase - think about it.

When I built my Bronco I welded the rear and left the front open - I HATED it. I had all the performance I could want but when I was climbing steep hills and going through mud the front end wouldn't consistently pull when I knew it should be.

I welded my front and I've been loving every moment of it, but I am twin sticked. I run a lot of my trails in FWD low range as it steers great - as others have said the rear will push the front tires through the corner, making it difficult to turn.

I think the ultimate setup would be a welded front and a Detroit out back. The Detroit would unlock when in FWD and would allow the truck to turn. I couldn't ever go back to an open diff up front - but I'm also on a D60. I went two years of relentless front digs and WOT wheel hopping assaults to break a stub shaft. A D44 is a different game - chromoly axles would be a must if you like the skinny pedal at all.

 

[Steve83]

I'm Lincoln-locked in front, and I haven't found a distinct advantage to it. It helps in some instances, and hurts in others. Before it was welded, my worst trail breakage was a sway bar end link. Since welding it, I've trashed 3 hub locks, 2 axleshafts, & a u-joint.

. . .

...and most of that was in my buddy's back yard, on dry dirt & tree roots.

Front spool won't make your rig "plow" a turn, but a REAR spool will. Think about it, your tires are turned and they are spinning, they're not gonna pull the rig straight, they're gonna pull the way they're pointed.

You're mistaken - it matters. It's almost like driving an air boat. I'm sure it's worse in my fullsize than in an eB due to wheelbase & weight, but it's gonna have an effect. My last trip was as a passenger in a mildly built DiscoII (AWD) with a front ARB & rear Detroit, and he was constantly turning it on & off to get it to turn & then climb & then turn & then climb.



BTW
My axleshafts are stabbed randomly, but those parts didn't break until I romped on it. I'm saying U-joint phase isn't an issue with a front spool.

 

[Broncobowsher]

U-joint phasing side to side is a myth. think about it. There is no way the right side axle will know what the left side axle is doing, or even if it is there.

 

[KyleQ]

If they are out of phase it will limit turning and put more stress on the joints. If you are looking at the joints and one is looking like an X on the left side and the right looks like a + the joints are going to bind, plain and simple. I've accidently setup my rig like this and noticed the difference immediately, I don't know how anyone couldn't notice.

It makes alot of sense when you consider the ellipsoidal velocities of the joints. Surely you've felt, when under hard lock on slickrock, your locked front axle doing that "lurching" thing.

 

[Steve83]

The u-joints bind during a hard turn regardless of each other, plain & simple. Try this: unlock one, turn hard toward the other, and you'll feel the locked one binding. Phasing only matters if you're putting power in at one end & taking it out at the other end. In a front axle, you're putting power in between the U-joints and taking it out at each end. So the powerflow only passes thru one flexed U-joint, so you get the oscillation no matter what.

Here's another way to look at it: what happens if the diff ISN'T welded?

 

[russellmn]

Phasing u-joints is only an issue on driveshafts. in an axle, they're separate shafts that don't care what the other side is doing. It won't limit your steering any, the joint will still go the same angle as before.

 

[bmc69]

If they are out of phase it will limit turning and put more stress on the joints. If you are looking at the joints and one is looking like an X on the left side and the right looks like a + the joints are going to bind, plain and simple. I've accidently setup my rig like this and noticed the difference immediately, I don't know how anyone couldn't notice.

It makes alot of sense when you consider the ellipsoidal velocities of the joints. Surely you've felt, when under hard lock on slickrock, your locked front axle doing that "lurching" thing.

I would be interested in how it is that you assure proper "phasing" of two u-joints that are completely independent of each other.

I run a front ARB on rocks and tight trails and have for years. the difference in my ability to make the truck turn (NOT turn the wheel..make the truck actually go the direction the wheels are turned) is so friggin night and day different in favor of unlocked that my even my spottter will immediately recognize it if I inadvertently left the front locked whilst attemptting a turn