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Gears for ZF5 and 35s 4.88 or 5.13

75Bronc

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Feb 5, 2008
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425
I am looking at gearing for my bronco. I am piecing together a ZF5 swap. I will be running 35's. What Highway RPM should I be looking for? I want low gears for offroading and playing in the rocks. But I want to be able to do 70 on the highway without stressing about RPM.

Looks like the 4.88 would provide about 2500 RPM at 70.
And the 5.13 would provide about 2650 at 70.

Is the 5.13 considerably weaker? Would the 5.15 be better for my 302 on long hills? What about MPG?

Is a little deeper gonna be worth it offroad? Or is the lower RPM going to be better for the highway?

Thanks!
 
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Apogee

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I would say it depends on which camp you fall into, the one where you use OD as a cruising gear for best efficiency or the one where you use it to drive over 60 MPH period. That said, where the shift points fall come into play as well, as does the engine you're running. The more torque you have down low, the happier the engine is going to be at a lower RPM.

I'm setting my rig up with an NV4500, 37's and 4.88 gears. I could have gone 5.13's and almost did, but I liked the shift points with the 4.88's better and my 351W generates a decent amount of torque down low, so it shouldn't negatively impact my driveability. That said, there's only a 5% difference between 4.88 and 5.13 gears, so both will work very similarly to one another at the end of the day.

Anything is going to be better than running the 35's with the 3.50 gears you have now IMHO.
 

spap

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jan 2, 2010
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Look at grimmjeeper. It’s a gear ratio calculator. I’m in the same boat
And when you measure a tire there are sometimes a little less. My pretty new 35 bfg mt measure at about just over 34. I don’t know what the final ratio is on a On your rig but the calculator will tell you
 
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75Bronc

75Bronc

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Feb 5, 2008
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I looked at grimjeeper. I think I like the shift points of the 4.88's better. Will A 302 with an RV cam pull 35's good enough at 2500 rpms at 70 mph?

Will I be looking for lower gears in the rocks? Crawl ratio will be 65.
 

bigmuddy

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I am looking at gearing for my bronco. I am piecing together a ZF5 swap. I will be running 35's. What Highway RPM should I be looking for? I want low gears for offroading and playing in the rocks. But I want to be able to do 70 on the highway without stressing about RPM.

Looks like the 4.88 would provide about 2500 RPM at 70.
And the 5.13 would provide about 2650 at 70.

Is the 5.13 considerably weaker? Would the 5.15 be better for my 302 on long hills? What about MPG?

Is a little deeper gonna be worth it offroad? Or is the lower RPM going to be better for the highway?

Thanks!
IMO. I would run at least a 4.88 gear and if you ever plan on towing a small trailer go with the 5.13. I have a good 5.0 motor with ZF tranny and 4.56 gears/35 tires. Good on the highway, great in the dirt and rocks too. But I recently started hauling a small trailer for camping and as long as you stay on 4 gear it's fine. Jump to 5th and you start slowing down...

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 

bigmuddy

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I would say it depends on which camp you fall into, the one where you use OD as a cruising gear for best efficiency or the one where you use it to drive over 60 MPH period. That said, where the shift points fall come into play as well, as does the engine you're running. The more torque you have down low, the happier the engine is going to be at a lower RPM.

I'm setting my rig up with an NV4500, 37's and 4.88 gears. I could have gone 5.13's and almost did, but I liked the shift points with the 4.88's better and my 351W generates a decent amount of torque down low, so it shouldn't negatively impact my driveability. That said, there's only a 5% difference between 4.88 and 5.13 gears, so both will work very similarly to one another at the end of the day.

Anything is going to be better than running the 35's with the 3.50 gears you have now IMHO.
The 351w vs. The 302 is a dramatic difference IMO.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
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75Bronc

75Bronc

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Feb 5, 2008
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Thanks for the input Bigmuddy. Do you downshift to 4th on hills?

Are the 5.13 gears so small I should worry about stripping the gears?
 

toddsrods

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Feb 1, 2011
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I had 4.10's with a 351/C-4 and 35's before switching to the ZF.
I love the overdrive, but often wish I had 4.56 or 4.88's. I wouldn't do the 5.13's with 35's, my feeling is you would lose all the benefits of the overdrive. Too high RPM at highway speeds.

for the rocks, I did the low gears in the transfer case. the combo works marvelous.
 

bigmuddy

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Thanks for the input Bigmuddy. Do you downshift to 4th on hills?

Are the 5.13 gears so small I should worry about stripping the gears?
Not sure why you would strip gears? Problem is when hauling my small trailer 5th gear isn't low enough to maintain speed but shifting to 4th causes the engine to over rev. Frankly the 302 is a hi rev motor but it's not something I care for... when I'm on a secondary road and running 55mph then I'm 4th and life is good.
I decided to build a new 351w for now as o could stomach replacing gears again to jump to 5.13 gears. Would cost me around 1500 i believe.

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AZ73

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You have a "T" case so you have some advantage there for the rocks.
 
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75Bronc

75Bronc

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5.13 gears are considerably smaller in size than 4.88 gears. I have heard the ring and pinion set is weaker than a 4.88 set.

I'm leaning toward 4.88

Keep the input coming!
 

Apogee

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I read the same thing regarding gear strength, but have no empirical evidence one way or the other, as the only set I've had my hands on are the 4.88's, so I'm not sure how the sizes compare. That said, I'm swapping in a HP D44 at the same time, so that improves front gear strength.

60:1 will get you a lot of places...more with an automatic though. If you ever feel the need for more low-range gear, you could always add a Black Box or go ATLAS or low gears in the D20.
 

sykanr0ng

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DirtDonk

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Well your choices show that you do not "fear the gear" as we like to say around here.
But at this level of conversation, aside from you choosing which way you want to bias the driving experience, the engine itself has an equal value in the equation. It's right up there with tire size and transmission type.

You can't change the aero all that much on a Bronco, so highway speeds are still going to be a big decider on what ratio you finally choose.
To your question about 2500 rpm, how does your engine pull now at 2000 rpm? A basic carbureted 302 almost has to be up in the mid-2000's and a little above if it's not perfectly dialed in. If you've got a really well tuned engine and have built a sweet combination you can more easily go lower in rpm.
The good news is that even the higher levels of engine speed aren't doing real harm to a 302. As we've said many times here, many of us have run 3000-3200 rpm for hours getting where we're going and have had no issue with the Broncos.
Now, you asked about "stressing yourself" while worrying about rpm. Not about the engine stressing. We can't help you with your own level of stress and worries, other than at least trying to alleviate your fear of higher rpm levels with your engine.
But the engine itself couldn't care less below 3000rpm. And not much even above that either.

There are several members here that have good running carbureted engines that pull down to near 2000 rpm at highway speeds and do very well. Only having to downshift when the roads get steeper.
But that said, I think it's safe to say that "most" of the other 302's that are not fuel-injected or deeper breathing down low are not going to appreciate anything below 2500. And if you do go lower in rpm by choosing the taller gear ratio, you are then losing some of your rock-crawling happiness. Depends on where that RV cam of yours is happy. Plan to downshift when the road starts pointing your Bronco a little more up in the front.

Once you add EFI to the equation, and add decent exhaust, or go smaller tires, all that changes. I bet I could run 2000-2100 rpm at 65 all day with my Explorer motor and smaller lift and tires and still have good acceleration and off-roadability to a point. But that would take 3.73's instead of the 4.56's I'm running and I'm not ready to go there yet. Still like to keep things easy off-road as well.
Besides, chirping tires into second on an old utility vehicle is kind of fun!

Add a 351 or deep-breathing stroker to the mix, and those lower rpms are a piece of cake with the proper tune or EFI. But again, as you've worried about, you then suffer a bit off the highway.

Sounds like you want to bias it to off-road, but not get screwed on the road. Correct?
Given 33.5" to 34" tall tires, a sufficiently lifted and rigged out heavy Bronco, you could go as tall as 4.56 for the street and keep it near 2500 @ 70mph (or 2350 @65mph) or so. Or go 4.88's and bias it towards the off-road and acceleration, but run at the higher 2700 rpm range on the road.

You'd still go better off-road with the 4.56's than with your previous setup most likely (not sure what that is now?) but if you wanted to go to the off-road side and used 4.88's you'd be at about 2700 @ 70mph. Probably puts you at about 1300-1400 rpm at 5mph in first gear, high-range. Pretty good compared to most except for the dedicated rock crawlers.
Would be more than enough gear for my type of wheeling. Not sure about yours.
Again though, all depends on how well your engine would pull your brick breaking wind called a Bronco down the road at speed.

So figure out what condition your engine will be in for the majority of your drive time and go with that. If you're going to Explorerize a 351w or stroker, you can pretty much do anything you want.
If you're going to run just the (unknown?) "RV" cam and a carb in a 302 I would have to say stick with the 4.88 since 5.13 is getting up there in the higher speeds on the street.
Not that it's going to hurt the engine to run 2800 rpm. But it starts being more of a compromise and might bother you to rev that high. At 2700 and below you're in the sweet spot. Great off-road, weaker pinion in the front, higher rpm on the road.

Whether the 5.13 is too weak for the 44 in your case, it again depends on just how you drive off-road. Heavy right foot? Leaping and bounding over hill and dale with great enthusiasm? Or poking along and taking the technical aspects of finding the right line over an obstacle?
In other words, how hard are you going to be on that 44?
I saw a pinion snap on an '06 Rubicon it's first trip out after a 4.88 swap. The previous year with 4.11's it had done just fine, but at just 20 minutes out of Moab the large tires, the smaller pinion, and an inexperienced buddy driving, that was a trouble filled 20 minutes!
Luckily most live longer lives than that, and he had 37" tires and a buddy driving, but you see where it's going.
How much are you willing to spend to make a 44 hardier?

And what level starts to stress you out? And who are you trying to keep up with off-road? And how do you drive? And how happy do you want to be on the highway?
Don't even bother figuring MPG into this conversation. All are going to be close. Can't say which was is going to give you an extra 1/2mpg, or whether that's even pertinent. Might be all the same.

All that rambling is by way of saying that while 5.13's and 35's might be perfect for some Bronco owners, I think that they will be too low for your needs. Even the 4.88 is pushing it from what it sounds like.
All you have to do though is decide which way you want the bias. Street or Trail.
Easy peasy!;D
Yeah, right...%)

Paul
 
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75Bronc

75Bronc

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Feb 5, 2008
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Paul thank you for the detailed response.

I think I am leaning towards 4.88's. I don't have much freeway around here and the max speed limit anywhere close is 65. Doubt I will do that very often.
I don't do a lot of hardcore wheeling. But I would like to do Moab and Rubicon in the near future. I definitely will go wheeling more often than on the highway though.

My motor is a 302 bored 40 over and a comp camps XE256H. RPM range is 1000-5200. I did the full kit with matching valve springs, but other than that, the motor is stock with FiTech Fuel Injection.

http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/cam-specs/Details.aspx?csid=798&sb=2
 

AZ69EB

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Jun 8, 2006
Messages
680
I had the 5.0 EFI, ZF, 4.88’s, & 33” tires. I ran close to 3K at 75’ish. The only thing I didn’t like about the ZF is the 3rd to 4th gear split. It sucked. Especially, going up a hill with a high grade or worse pulling a small trailer on the same hill. Basically, I needed more hp. I would have to wind up the little 5.0 past 4500 + rpm’s to keep moving. But, the little 5.0 likes to spin those higher rpm’s. :) I’m in the process of going 408w & 4R70. But, off-road it wheeled good. It would of been perfect with the Tera Low gears in the D20. Good luck & have fun!
 
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75Bronc

75Bronc

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AZ69 why are you swapping out the ZF for an auto? Is yours available? I am in AZ as wel.
 

AZ69EB

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Jun 8, 2006
Messages
680
It’s gone already. The ZF is a great truck trans, but not a quick shifting trans. It’s not the best choice for driving on the street with more hp.
 

rguest3

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Dec 13, 2012
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3,780
75 Bronc - With the limited highway use in your area, do you really need / want the OD?

Personally, I would go AX-15 for a Manual with OD. Smaller, Lighter, less Expensive, MORE FUN to drive, matched well with a 302.

If you do go the OD route, 4.56-4.88 gears would work well with that XE256H Cam.
 
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