GM 1 Ton Tie Rod Over Write ups?

[Banjer Picker]

Does anyone know of a good write up or a link for instructions on doing the TRO conversion with the GM 1 Ton Tie Rod ends and Drag link ends? I couldn't seem to dig up anything with a search on CB. I found a couple threads from Heep guys on Pirate. I'm pretty confident that I could make my way through the conversion but I'd definitely feel better if I had something to reference.

I've got the ES 2233 & ES2234 Tie Rod ends, the ES 2026 and 2027 for the drag links and the threaded bungs and jam nuts. I'll be picking up the DOM next week.

I'm running '79 Dana 44 Big Bronco Knuckles currently.

Some general questions floating through my head are:

-After I ream the knuckles do I need to use the sleeved inserts? Can't I just ream to fit the tapered TRE stud?
-If I do have to use a sleeve, who is the best vendor-source?
-Should I use sleeve inserts in the drag link ends as well?
-Whats the best lengnth to cut the DOM for the tie rod and for the drag link to allow for alignment?
-Any tips for getting the best results/performance? (I read several comments on pirate about a bad "dead spot" in the steering with this set up)
-Any "dont make the same mistake I did" comments?

I feel like I'm coming close to using up my quota of tech inquires lately. LOL. As always, thanks for any input!

Thanks

 

[phyler]

If you ream, you don't need the sleeves. I'm in the middle of doing the same thing with the kit from RuffStuff. My tie rod DOM length ended up at 35 1/4".

I asked earlier today if there is a benefit to reaming versus the sleeves. Haven't heard anything yet so I'll probably just use the sleeves since I have them.

 

[bigjhoov]

If you are going tro with the 78-79 knuckles, you will need spacers or sleeves. The tie rod should fit pretty well under. If you ream from the top to fit your hole will be too big at the bottom, like an hour glass.

The measure measurement between the knuckles should be similar to your drum knuckles. Assemble the bungs and tie rod ends, back each out 4-6 full turns to give yourself some adjustment room, and measure the distance between the grease zerk hole and where your tube will bottom out on the bung. Subtract those measurements from the length of your current tie rod and that should give you your cut length.

Your drag link will be similar. Center the box, center the wheels, and measure m between your two points. Subtract your rod end/heim measurements, and that's your cut length.

 

[Banjer Picker]

Thank you for the input guys!

I would have thought that this was a pretty common upgrade. Guess most are going with heims instead of the TREs. (??)

Additional input and experiences are welcome...otherwise...here we go!!!

 

[DirtDonk]

No, it is a very common upgrade. It's just that most (I believe) don't bother with the sleeves as you likely should. Most that I know of simply ream from the top and are happy with the actual end result without filling any of the void (the hourglass bigJ referenced) to get full contact.
It's possible that with the stock EB's smaller tapered hole to begin with, the larger reamed hole actually does use up most of the larger lower section. But your full-size knuckles are starting out with larger holes to begin with. Which seems like it would offer up more unused space in the new tapered hole from the top.

I will add too what I've told others though, that I have never heard of a failure of one of these compromised knuckles.
So it's just that the "right" way to do it would be to fill the old taper with either weld or sleeve, but that the quick-n-easy way seems to work.
Maybe the full-size truck knuckles are thicker too, and therefor still have good coverage. But if it was mine, I'd feel better knowing that my tapered stud had full contact with the knuckle/arm material.

Just out of curiosity, what's the reason for your going with TRO instead of TRU? Clearance? Better angles? Something to match other customizations we need to see pictures of to make us happy?

Paul

 

[Banjer Picker]

Hi Paul,
Thank you for the input.

I put a big bow in my tie rod on a rock at the LEBC round up in Mason TX last month and blew out a seal in my factory power steering box. It seemed like a great excuse to upgrade my steering set up to a ram assist 4 x 4 x 2 box and a TRO set up with DOM tubing.

I have the WH track bar riser (that is not yet installed) and the adjustable trac bar.

I'll attach a pic as well (but the carnage isn't very exciting) LOL.

 

[mortimersnerd]

Here ya go. I wrote this up quite a while ago:

http://classicbroncos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=179150&highlight=heavy+duty+steering+links

I agree with Donk about the inserts. It's probably the better way to do it. I just reamed mine and they're fine. I also haven't really heard of anyone having problems with theirs, but YMMV. Shouldn't be any dead spot with this steering, esp since it's essentially factory chevy steering. If the drag link is on top of the tie rod instead of the face it can create a dead spot, but there's varying reports of that as well.

 

[DirtDonk]

The fact that the spot that the draglink end mounts into the passenger side tie-rod end is vertical (hole and stud horizontal) will give you some vagueness to the steering. Not sure if that's what they meant by dead spot, but what happens is with a purely vertical orientation the tendency is for the draglink to rotate the tie-rod up and down as you go back and forth on the wheel.
That initial rotation means that the tie rod is not moving side-to-side as linearly as you would like. This is why Ford used an approximately 45° angle at that point as a compromise.

Remember, that tapered hole in the right side rod end of these GM conversions was never intended for a draglink from the factory. It's a steering stabilizer shock mount that just happens to be a semi-compatible size and location for a draglink.
It's also why it usually turns out to be the weak link in this system. That necked down area is the first thing to bend when you wheel it hard.
It's usually not a catastrophic failure when it happens, and will hopefully always limit itself to bending and not breaking. But it will mess with your toe-in settings until re-adjusted after any potential bending.

Ruff-Stuff also makes a product called "the cure" which is simply a (Delrin I think?) washer/cup/thingy that holds the draglink end more rigid to help reduce the rotational movement. Ultimately someone should make that rod end with an angled mount so that the angle of the dangle is more correct for a Bronco. But in the meantime, "the cure" is a good quick way to improve the feel.

Paul

 

[bigmuddy]

That initial rotation means that the tie rod is not moving side-to-side as linearly as you would like. This is why Ford used an approximately 45° angle at that point as a compromise.

Ruff-Stuff also makes a product called "the cure" which is simply a (Delrin I think?) washer/cup/thingy that holds the draglink end more rigid to help reduce the rotational movement. Ultimately someone should make that rod end with an angled mount so that the angle of the dangle is more correct for a Bronco. But in the meantime, "the cure" is a good quick way to improve the feel.

Paul[/QUOTE]

I have the TRO and it works well compared to the stock system. I also just installed "the Cure" from ruff stuff and its a great upgrade for the chevy TRO users. Keep in mind that if you by "the cure" you need to make sure you either by their Chevy TRE or make double sure yours is similar. The Cure is a "fits most TRE's" not a "fits ALL TRE's"

 

[zerostar2410]

I'm also going to be doing this upgrade using the GM 1ton stuff from

http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/STEERINGKIT.html

My question is do i stick with the "Y" link setup or do the GM crossover setup? is there any benefit to one over the other?

 

[DirtDonk]

Depends on what you're trying to achieve and what you have to do to get there from here.
What do you have, and what do you need? The only reasons I can think of to do the extra work (and expense!) for a high-steer setup is if you're lifted higher than "normal" and need to lower your draglink angle more than the typical off-the-shelf parts provide, Or you need more ground clearance for your tie-rod.
Or, I suppose, if you could consider it to be a reasonable solution for some sort of angular problem you're having with your tie-rod and dralink angles, that just can't be gotten rid of through the usual means.

Maybe others will chime in with their feelings on the subject, because some have actually done it. But it would have to be a pretty extreme need for me to go that route with an EB.
Other rigs perhaps more, but the EB's work pretty well without going there if you have all the other ducks in a row.

Good luck. Just remember, if you do one thing you usually have to compensate with another!

Paul