Has anybody used a Mass-Flo efi system?

[COBlu77]

3k bucks doesn't look like a bad deal?

factory ford will work just fine with a stroker. meter that is cal'd correctly and you will have no issues.

i've run 36 and 42 lb injectors that were spot on for driveability with pro-m, pmas and even the dreaded c&l meter. right now i'm running 60lb injectors with an old pro-m universal meter (360 deg sampling). with no tuning i had a hot start problem (rich) had to floor it to start it. corrected via sct chip tune, i have the software so its a non issue.

if somebody has 3k to spend go for it. if your against factory ford, there are different cheaper options like, megasquirt, aem, accel, etc... some will not be plug in play and require tuning.

i like to preach the factory ford stuff because it is basically plug and play except for running your fuel pump and there hardly anything to that also.

mass flo's setup from the pictures seem to be adapted from ford also.

Ford ECU's are programmed specifically to match the application for which they were intended (air flow, timing, fuel) and do not re-program themselves or "plug-n-play" with new volume (bigger engines) , air flow (MAF's and throttle bodies), timing (cams), fuel (bigger injectors). Throwing parts together Ford or aftermarket cannot be covered up with a reprogrammed MAF that's trying to fool the ECU. Even if you source Ford OEM parts (90 mm Lightning MAF, 30 lb Injectors, and Cobra 65mm throttle body) they won't play together on any size engine without the proper programming. All these parts OEM or aftermarket don't come cheap either.

Ford spent a lot of time and money developing the programming and parts that will work together in a specific vehicle to deliver reliability, driveability in a variety of conditions, and still pass emmissions standards. When you just start changing the variables something has to give. I've got to assume that Mass-Flow's system is engineered and programmed to have it's components work together correctly with your engine and cam, so you don't have to experiment with expensive parts.

 

[jurob]

i've played with the fuel injected mustangs for a long time. why is it i've never heard of one mustang person removing their ford efi set up and installing mass-flo?
in my opinion, there is no benefit except for spending more money.

"Any naturally aspirated engine, regardless of brand, size, combination of parts, etc., requires a given air/fuel ratio, at a given load. These ratios do not change from engine to engine, until you get into forced induction applications. (We'll get to that later). The needed air/fuel ratio changes with such things as engine temperature, air temperature, and atmospheric pressure, but the needed changes, again, are the same for all engines. The task for any management system is to add the correct amount of fuel to the amount of air that the engine uses."

this is from mass-flo's website

also, a meter to fool the ecu? which meter does mass-flo use? maybe a pro-m meter?

now look closely at the mass-flo setup. i mentioned this in my previous post, it looks just like factory ford. from the ford tfi dist, ford eec tester, coil, iac, eec plug, etc....

i'll go out on a limb without knowing for a fact, but this is a copy of ford setup! but some believe that a ford copy will work better than fords? they offer tuning also, i'll bet you my sct chips will bolt right in there.

which ever anybody chooses, goodluck! i'll stick to the ford stuff.

 

[minimatt]

To clarify, the Mass-Flo stuff is all Ford EEC IV with regard to electronics, except the mass air meter, which is a GM prouduct with a box to convert the signal from the mass-air to a signal the Ford computer understands. (I don't reacall what the conversion is)

 

[toddz69]

Hey guys,
I was looking into aftermarket efi systems and came across the Mass-Flo.
It looks pretty slick and I like that it is truly a mass-air system. I have a 302 in a '77. Has anybody used the Mass-Flo system? Pros/Cons? Any thoughts appreciated!

I think the big benefit of the Mass-Flo systems are seen by those folks who, for one reason or another, are trying to keep a stock-looking intake/air filter setup on their engines. That usually doesn't include us Bronco guys - we don't mind having Mustang intake plenums in our engine bays and in fact, I think most of us think they look pretty cool in there. On the other hand, if I was building an engine for a Cobra kit car or retrofiting EFI onto an older Mustang or other vintage Ford, the Mass-Flo system might make more sense.

Todd Z.

 

[Madgyver]

I think the big benefit of the Mass-Flo systems are seen by those folks who, for one reason or another, are trying to keep a stock-looking intake/air filter setup on their engines. That usually doesn't include us Bronco guys - we don't mind having Mustang intake plenums in our engine bays and in fact, I think most of us think they look pretty cool in there. On the other hand, if I was building an engine for a Cobra kit car or retrofiting EFI onto an older Mustang or other vintage Ford, the Mass-Flo system might make more sense.

Todd Z.

One of the main reasons why I'm leaning towards the Mass-Flo kit is because there is no EFI intake produced for a Clevor mill and my B & A single plane is a perfect candidate for adding in the welded bungs for the injectors. Plus I think that it would look way cool........... and run alot more efficiently

 

[MD]

I think the big benefit of the Mass-Flo systems are seen by those folks who, for one reason or another, are trying to keep a stock-looking intake/air filter setup on their engines. That usually doesn't include us Bronco guys - we don't mind having Mustang intake plenums in our engine bays and in fact, I think most of us think they look pretty cool in there. On the other hand, if I was building an engine for a Cobra kit car or retrofiting EFI onto an older Mustang or other vintage Ford, the Mass-Flo system might make more sense.

Todd Z.

I agree completely, plus the long intake runners on the Ford manifold vastly improves the low end torque on a 302 for crawling, and you pay a huge premium for the 'look' and no performance increase vs. Explorer intake.

Actually a true original looking setup is the BOSS EFI:
http://www.retrotekspeed.com/

The injectors are hidden in the carb and it is returnless fuel rail just like a carb.

Michael

 

[MD]

Mass-Flo will sell the manifold/rails/TB/MAF for $1700.

My 408W stroker produces 540hp with a TrickFlow manifold $550, a Ford 86mm TB $200, Aeromotive rails $200, & a $100 MAF. So you pay about a $650 premium for the look, which isn't too bad for looks if you will. Most other setups require their EFI system, so you can't source your own, leaving the premium to be much higher.

Michael

 

[MD]

To clarify, the Mass-Flo stuff is all Ford EEC IV with regard to electronics, except the mass air meter, which is a GM prouduct with a box to convert the signal from the mass-air to a signal the Ford computer understands. (I don't reacall what the conversion is)

The GM meter outputs a variable frequency, and the Ford EEC expects a variable voltage.

Chris originally used the Ford meter (just the sensor & electronics, no housing) bolted onto the side with a sampling tube passage in the throttle body. I told him that he would not get consistent results with this, and he argued that it would work fine. He has switched to using the GM meter which uses the long sensor across the entire air path, so obviously he didn't get the performance he expected with the Ford sampling tube idea.

Michael

 

[Madgyver]

Mass-Flo will sell the manifold/rails/TB/MAF for $1700.

My 408W stroker produces 540hp with a TrickFlow manifold $550, a Ford 86mm TB $200, Aeromotive rails $200, & a $100 MAF. So you pay about a $650 premium for the look, which isn't too bad for looks if you will. Most other setups require their EFI system, so you can't source your own, leaving the premium to be much higher.

Michael

Got any pics to post of your set-up?

 

[minimatt]

I agree completely, plus the long intake runners on the Ford manifold vastly improves the low end torque on a 302 for crawling, and you pay a huge premium for the 'look' and no performance increase vs. Explorer intake.

Actually a true original looking setup is the BOSS EFI:
http://www.retrotekspeed.com/

The injectors are hidden in the carb and it is returnless fuel rail just like a carb.

Michael

Unfortunately, you are back to speed density, throttle body injection and lap-top tuning. The only advantage I see is the look. This is from their instruction manual.
A laptop computer is recommended to get the
most from your BossEFI system. If you do not have access to a laptop RetroTek
Speed can pre-load your calibrations based on your engine specifications
Thanks, but I'll pass.

Also, I haven't seen any dyno results to support your claim that the long-runner EFI vastly improves low end torque over a carb type intake with port injection. I'm not saying it isn't true, but the only comparisons I've seen show only slight differences (10-15 lb-ft at most) between the two and would probably not be noticable seat-of-the-pants.

 

[MD]

Got any pics to post of your set-up?

 

[MD]

Unfortunately, you are back to speed density, throttle body injection and lap-top tuning. The only advantage I see is the look. This is from their instruction manual.
A laptop computer is recommended to get the
most from your BossEFI system. If you do not have access to a laptop RetroTek
Speed can pre-load your calibrations based on your engine specifications
Thanks, but I'll pass.

I'm not sure about the BOSSEFI, but Accel DFI has licensed tuners around the country to get these things setup for you. In many cases the vendor will provide you with a base tune and help you get it running. I know plenty of computer illiterate guys running individual trumpet stack SD EFI systems.
The Ford EEC is definitely superior for street use, but a custom motor stills requires a custom tune. Chris now provides a base tune free of charge for that reason.

Also, I haven't seen any dyno results to support your claim that the long-runner EFI vastly improves low end torque over a carb type intake with port injection. I'm not saying it isn't true, but the only comparisons I've seen show only slight differences (10-15 lb-ft at most) between the two and would probably not be noticable seat-of-the-pants.

In this case, the difference between a GT40/Explorer intake is 50 ft. lbs over the carb style Victor Intake all the way up at 3500 rpm. It is probably 70+ down around 2000. The short stroke, short rod ratio and big intake cross section all combine together in conspiracy against the SBF, but the long runner intake goes a long way in propping up the cylinder fill action in the low to midrange. That is why Ford switched from a carb style intake TB injection system to the long runner EFI manifold that proliferated the Fox mustang era.

Michael

 

[DirtDonk]

I couldn't tell from the details MD, but are both those comparing EFI on different manifolds? Or carb'ed vs EFI?
I'm assuming EFI vs EFI on different manifolds, but wanted to be sure.

Thanks

Paul

 

[minimatt]

I stand corrected. It would be interesting to see a comparison on a mild 302 instead of a 347 with the dual plane Performer RPM that Mass-Flo is using (per phone conversation with Chris) instead of a Victor Jr. As a percentage, my guess is they would be pretty much the same with maybe a slight improvement fo the dual plane. Thanks for the info Michael.

 

[flint_knapper]

here is a source for a custom computer and system for
fuel injection for the folks wanting to go with
a complete custom engine setup!

http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html

 

[rjlougee]

One of the main reasons why I'm leaning towards the Mass-Flo kit is because there is no EFI intake produced for a Clevor mill and my B & A single plane is a perfect candidate for adding in the welded bungs for the injectors. Plus I think that it would look way cool........... and run a lot more efficiently

It's not that hard to pull the TB EFI throttle body, yank the injectors, but keep the TPS sensor on it. Then add the air intake elbow from a 5.2 Durango so you cover the top and pull all the air through, add some rubber boots and a Ford MAF meter and you've got a MAF SEFI setup on top of that intake.

Another option is to use the 90 degree stack and TB/TPS setup from an injected 460, then fab a 2 into 1 air tube for the MAF. You may be able to use the stock air tube from a '95 5.0 F150, but I'm not sure. Maybe I can check that tomorrow.

I read a lot of nay-sayer info in this post, but for my $$ I'd go with the stock Ford setup, even if it's a little "off" until tweeced (pun intended).

The stock stuff will accurately adjust to some pretty good changes, but to get the most out of it you're going to have to tune it. In that case, and even in the case of the Mass-Flo, you're going to have to learn to do it yourself or pay someone to do it for you. Sure, it comes with a base tune that's pretty good, but so does the stock Ford EEC.
Joe

 

[FASTERDAMITT]

I run the Mass-Flo EFI if you have any questions. Chris has been the best at customer service. I have no complaints on the system. So far I ran the same system on a 331 and two 347's.

 

[FASTERDAMITT]

Here's a pic

[/IMG]

 

[Madgyver]

Here's a pic

[/IMG]

Nice!............