Help Identifying Power Steering Pump & Pressure Fitting

[Jeff10]

Hi,

I am hoping to resolve a power steering system issue the '70 had when I bought it. It hasn't run in over 2 years... but, the time is coming.

The problem (if I remember correctly) was that the power steering pump would belch fluid from the cap/filler neck after the Bronco had been driven and the fluid had come up to temperature. I noticed that the hose attached to the pressure side of the pump seemed to have some play in it; but, the fitting at the pump was tight. (More on this in a moment.)

I purchased a bracket from a board member here two years ago with the intention of replacing the existing pump with a Saginaw. I hadn't tried the bracket until today. The bracket interferes with the mechanical fuel pump. So, I figured it was worth making an attempt to correct the root problem before getting too creative.

I am attaching pictures of the pressure side hose and of the power steering pump. The connection at the 4x4x2 box, with the inverted flare fitting, did not appear to leak. The fitting on the other end of the hose, with the o-ring, is the end which appeared to have some slop. With the hex nut tightened into the pump, you can wiggle the hose around in the hex fitting.

My thinking is that the the hose isn't fitting correctly at the pressure side fitting from the pump and that air may be drawn into the system during operation, although I'm not an expert. I don't see how the hose fitting can really seat into the fitting at the pump.

I thought the easiest way to do this would be to post the picture and see if anyone has advice. I'd also like to ask for some help with the following particular questions:

1. What type of power steering pump is shown?
2. What type of fitting is shown with the o-ring on the pressure side hose? I am familiar with -AN fittings with o-rings and inverted flares; but, this hose does not appear to have an inverted flare. (It may be hard to see; but, it almost appears that the end of the hose has been modified.)

I can include any other information that might help in follow-up posts.

Thanks for your help.

Jeff

 

[broncodriver99]

Looks like a standard Ford CII pump. Used in most Fords in the 80's and early 90's.

Not much help on the fitting other than it looks like an oring style fitting. They should be pretty snug and not have any slop in them. The oring does the sealing so you don't have to crank them tight like a flare. Have you tried a new oring?

 

[Jeff10]

Hi broncodriver99,

Thanks for your reply.

I haven't tried replacing the o-ring yet. I can give it a try and see what happens. (It will be quite a while before I'll be able to test it out, though.)

Because the end of the hose fitting is somewhat scarred-up, I am thinking I'd like to replace it; however, I'm not sure how to match up the hose with a stock application.

Thanks again.

Jeff

 

[broncodriver99]

I just looked on Rockauto.com at a '79 F150. They ran the 4x4 box used to make the 4x4x2 box and also ran a CII pump. There were a couple different pressure hoses listed. One should work. They should cross over and be available from a NAPA or some other local chain.

 

[Jeff10]

Hi broncodriver99,

Thanks for taking the time to do the research. I'll take a look, too.

Have a great weekend!

Jeff

 

[broncnaz]

They are Oring swivel fittings So it will turn as long as its not leaking its good. But it is a good idea to replace the oring. They do get hard over time. Since its on the pressure side you wont draw air it would leak oil if it was bad.
Your fluid beltching issue could either be due to air still in the system or the system is getting to hot. May need to add a cooler if you dont have one already.

 

[Pa PITT]

... I say if those are straight copper line you need to replace them.. Copper will viberate an break too fast.
.. Some one else can chime in.. And yes I've run copper several times, but you don't want a fire.

 

[Jeff10]

Hi broncnaz,

They are Oring swivel fittings So it will turn as long as its not leaking its good. But it is a good idea to replace the oring. They do get hard over time. Since its on the pressure side you wont draw air it would leak oil if it was bad.
Your fluid beltching issue could either be due to air still in the system or the system is getting to hot. May need to add a cooler if you dont have one already.

Thanks for the help.

I probably don't have enough experience to really make concrete statements. I only drove the Bronco two or three times for less than 10 miles. And it was pretty cold at that time (around 20 degrees F).

I will replace the o-ring before going any further. I am just having trouble understanding how the o-ring by itself is enough to seal the pressure side. With all that pressure (1500 psi if I remember correctly from another thread), I would think that there would need to be another seal surface. On the hydro-boost on the '71, the -AN fitting for the pressure side of the brake unit is an o-ring seal with an inverted flare. Maybe I'm just missing something.

I agree, too, with the scenario about leaking fluid if the o-ring is not working correctly. I was just thinking that possible as the fluid cooled and contracted, perhaps a vacuum would be drawn and air could leak into the system past the o-ring.

I will be installing a cooler on this Bronco, too, to eliminate possible overheating.

I'm curious, too, if anyone has replaced the fitting at the power steering pump with a different type of seal for the high pressure side.

Thanks again for the advice.

Jeff

 

[ren71]

Your sig says you're running 35's, that pump is barely capable for them. The fitting is correct and there will always be swiveling play by design. I had the same setup and ditched it for a saginaw and AN fittings. No more whining and fluid puking with the sag. Definitely worth it.

 

[Jeff10]

Hi ren71,

Your sig says you're running 35's, that pump is barely capable for them. The fitting is correct and there will always be swiveling play by design. I had the same setup and ditched it for a saginaw and AN fittings. No more whining and fluid puking with the sag. Definitely worth it.

Thanks for the input.

The '71 in my signature is running a Saginaw. The setup I'm working on now is for a '70, although the build is pretty much the same... 35's included.

After buying the '70 and observing the problems, my thought was to go with a Saginaw on it, too. The problem that I had at that time was finding a pump bracket that would work with the serpentine setup. I bought a bracket built by another member on CB; however, the bracket doesn't clear the mechanical fuel pump. I would prefer to stay with the mechanical pump. If your setup is similar, maybe I can learn from your pump/bracket setup.

Thanks,

Jeff

 

[bmc69]

I am just having trouble understanding how the o-ring by itself is enough to seal the pressure side. With all that pressure (1500 psi if I remember correctly from another thread), I would think that there would need to be another seal surface.

That is where your assumption goes south. Single O-rings in swivel and other flexible joints can be (and are) designed for pressures routinely exceeding 6000 psi. I do that for a living..is how I know that.

That said..without going in to a lot of detail, I don't like Ford's PS o-ring joint design on their pumps any more than you do. What I've personally been doing for 15 years or more with that interface is removing that fitting from the pump and TIG welding a -6 JIC male nipple directly on to it. Problem solved...forever. I do the same for Saginaw pumps too...FWIW.

 

[Jeff10]

Hey bmc69,

That is where your assumption goes south. Single O-rings in swivel and other flexible joints can be (and are) designed for pressures routinely exceeding 6000 psi. I do that for a living..is how I know that.

That said..without going in to a lot of detail, I don't like Ford's PS o-ring joint design on their pumps any more than you do. What I've personally been doing for 15 years or more with that interface is removing that fitting from the pump and TIG welding a -6 JIC male nipple directly on to it. Problem solved...forever. I do the same for Saginaw pumps too...FWIW.

I'm sure not an expert... just trying to understand what forces on the o-ring make the seal.

There's been a lot of good information provided here. I think installing a Saginaw might be a good upgrade... I'm just not certain how exactly to adapt it to the serp setup. TIG welding the fitting sounds great with the current pump or the Saginaw.

Do you run stock lines (maybe from another model Ford truck), or do you make up your own lines? (I made up lines with the hydro-boost on the '71, so I don't think it would be a big deal to use non-stock lines.

Thanks again.

Jeff

 

[toddz69]

Jeff:

I'm not sure about the mechanical fuel pump clearance but have you considered using the serpentine van bracket for your setup? You have the pickup serpentine bracket on it now and the van setup is a direct replacement. It would be an easy check, particularly if your engine is still on a stand.

Todd Z.

 

[Jeff10]

Hi Todd,

Jeff:

I'm not sure about the mechanical fuel pump clearance but have you considered using the serpentine van bracket for your setup? You have the pickup serpentine bracket on it now and the van setup is a direct replacement. It would be an easy check, particularly if your engine is still on a stand.

Todd Z.

Thanks for the suggestion.

The motor is in the Bronco; but, the radiator and grill are removed, so it's pretty open.

I know I could do some searching, although I'm not sure I know what to search for. Is there a particular van bracket that I should be looking for? Is it only the bracket with the idler and the power steering pump that I would be looking for?

Have you recovered yet from Baja? I loved some of the pics that were posted of you and Andrew.

Take Care,

Jeff

 

[toddz69]

Hi Todd,



Thanks for the suggestion.

The motor is in the Bronco; but, the radiator and grill are removed, so it's pretty open.

I know I could do some searching, although I'm not sure I know what to search for. Is there a particular van bracket that I should be looking for? Is it only the bracket with the idler and the power steering pump that I would be looking for?

Have you recovered yet from Baja? I loved some of the pics that were posted of you and Andrew.

Take Care,

Jeff

Hi Jeff:

I think the years for the van bracket would be 87-88'ish - 96 on 302s and 351s. It would be the bracket and the pump. If you have an idler on the a/c bracket area now, I think you could swap that over.

Pretty much all recovered from Baja now but still think almost daily of our good times down there. Such great memories.

Todd Z.

 

[thegreatjustino]

Jeff:

I'm not sure about the mechanical fuel pump clearance but have you considered using the serpentine van bracket for your setup? You have the pickup serpentine bracket on it now and the van setup is a direct replacement. It would be an easy check, particularly if your engine is still on a stand.

Todd Z.

The van bracket will hit the mechanical fuel pump, but there is enough meat on it that you can notch it accordingly to clear. I've done it without issue.

Here is the info on the van bracket with part numbers:

http://www.wt4x4.net/tech/saginawswap.htm

 

[Jeff10]

Hey Todd,

Hi Jeff:

I think the years for the van bracket would be 87-88'ish - 96 on 302s and 351s. It would be the bracket and the pump. If you have an idler on the a/c bracket area now, I think you could swap that over.

Pretty much all recovered from Baja now but still think almost daily of our good times down there. Such great memories.

Todd Z.

Thanks again for your help.

Jeff

 

[Jeff10]

Hey thegreatjustino,

The van bracket will hit the mechanical fuel pump, but there is enough meat on it that you can notch it accordingly to clear. I've done it without issue.

Here is the info on the van bracket with part numbers:

http://www.wt4x4.net/tech/saginawswap.htm

Thanks!

I'll take a closer look tomorrow at the article... it looks to be pretty detailed. Definitely good information.

Take Care,

Jeff

 

[ren71]

I'm currently running V-belts, but I bought BCB's multi pump powersteering bracket that will work with a number of different combinations including mounting an AC compressor and serpentine.
Pricier than other brackets but the versatility makes up for it imo.

I have the bigger later model saginaw pump with two return lines(not the canned ham) and it doesn't hit my mechanical fuel pump. They have two options for different bushing spacers depending on application, but they threw in both when I asked.



http://www.bcbroncos.com/multipump2.pdf