Help-- need to identify leak

[BoulderBronco22]

Need help identifying a leak. I have pictures, but can't figure out how to post them from my computer... can someone explain how to do that? I tried to read the instructions on this site but it said something about a "manage attachments" button that I cannot locate anywhere!

THANKS!!

 

[70_Steve]

I have pictures, but can't figure out how to post them from my computer... can someone explain how to do that?

You can pony up $12 a year and become a Contributor. That will allow you to upload pics directly into the thread, using the Upload Photos function.

Otherwise: Upload the pics to another photo-hosting web site, like SuperMotors, and follow these instructions.

To include an image that is not uploaded as an attachment and is located on another website, you can do so by copying the full URL to the image, (not the page on which the image is located), and either pressing the 'Insert Image' icon or by typing

after it, ensuring that you do not have any spaces before or after the URL of the image. You can insert pictures from your albums (?) in this way too.

 

[El Kabong]

Posting pics using "Manage Attachments" is for contributors only. It's a great site & well worth the $12 a year to support everything that is shared here.

For non paying members you can upload your pics to a hosting site like Supermotors, Photobucket, etc. I know Supermotors has a free service. I have no experience with Photobucket. After you upload them there, you hotlink them here. This is the method that I still use, partly because that's how I learned, partly because I can hotlink them to multiple sites from one upload location.

Once you load them to the hosting site, there is an IMG code for the pic that you will copy & paste here. You can copy it whole with the IMG tags from the hosting site, or right click on the pic itself & copy the "Image Location" & paste it here using the

icon to add the tags. The code will look like:

{img}http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/503538/fullsize/100_9539.jpg%20alt={/img} in the "Reply To" window, except the {} will be [].

With the correct brackets that ^ code will look like this in the thread.

 

[BoulderBronco22]

Have the pictures...

$12 is well worth it. Like I said-- I am new to this but trying to use this project to learn as well as get a sweet Bronco out of it. Thanks for the help and suggestions!

-- It appears it is missing two bolts and I am not sure if that large gap in the middle is suppose to be there or not. Also, what are these parts even called?

 

[70_Steve]

It appears it is missing two bolts and I am not sure if that large gap in the middle is suppose to be there or not. Also, what are these parts even called?

Thank you for becoming a contributor and helping to support the site!

Blue thing is the oil pan. Sheet metal piece is called a block plate. It covers the entire back of the block and is the same shape as the next big piece called a bellhousing. The flywheel, clutch assembly (clutch disk and pressure plate) and clutch fork with the throwout bearing are inside the bellhousing. The block plate goes on the back of the engine first, held in place by two steel dowel pins. Then the flywheel gets bolted to the crankshaft. Finally the clutch disk and pressure plate get bolted to the flywheel. Lastly, the bellhousinig gets bolted to the block to cover all that, and provide support and alignment for the transmission.

Your leak could come from one of a number of places. Could be the rear of the intake manifold, valve cover (gasket) or rear main seal. The best way to find it is to clean off all the oil thats on there now. Then you'll be able to see, or feel, where the leak is. You really can't see the back edge of the intake manifold, but you can get your fingers down there and feel if there's any oil. The valve covers should be pretty evident.

Yes, that gap in the bottom of the bell housing is supposed to be there. Lets "stuff" drain out. Those bolts often are not installed. Put them in if it makes you feel better... I have them in mine.

 

[DirtDonk]

Hey Boulder, welcome!
Is that a lot of oil I see on the pan that you've already cleaned off most of? If so, is it mainly on the pan, and does it drip down a lot?
If not, does most of the oil drip down out of that little gap you were talking about?

If it's dripping out of the gap, then it's your engine's rear main seal (around the end of the crankshaft) and can be a lot of work to replace. Not highly technical, but certainly labor intensive.

If it's just on the pan itself, then the other stuff Steve was talking about would come into the fore. A TON of oil can leak down from a loose valve cover and make a mess like that. But a loose or just leaky old oil pan gasket can do the same thing.

Good luck. Good advice to clean it up super good and go out and drive it some more to see if you can pinpoint the beginning of the mess.

Paul

 

[BoulderBronco22]

Hey Boulder, welcome!
Is that a lot of oil I see on the pan that you've already cleaned off most of? If so, is it mainly on the pan, and does it drip down a lot?
If not, does most of the oil drip down out of that little gap you were talking about?

If it's dripping out of the gap, then it's your engine's rear main seal (around the end of the crankshaft) and can be a lot of work to replace. Not highly technical, but certainly labor intensive.

If it's just on the pan itself, then the other stuff Steve was talking about would come into the fore. A TON of oil can leak down from a loose valve cover and make a mess like that. But a loose or just leaky old oil pan gasket can do the same thing.

Good luck. Good advice to clean it up super good and go out and drive it some more to see if you can pinpoint the beginning of the mess.

Paul

Cleaned it all up and did oil change... I am currently changing brakes and addinga power booster so it has not been street run, but I have revved the engine and the attached pics show where the leak is coming from...

IDEAS? Help with how involved the fix would be? I am guessing quite a bit!

 

[DirtDonk]

That rounded area part of the pan is still covered by the oil pan gasket. So there's a good likelihood it's the pan gasket itself, or a slightly warped pan flange. Possibly from over tightening?

If any of the oil is dripping out of the transmission side of that plate however, that's the rear main crankshaft seal. Also can be manual transmission oil leaking from the front input seal, but that's kind of rare, probably wouldn't leak that easy or much (unless someone way overfilled the tranny?) and would look and smell like nothing from the engine!

Both the pan and rear main are hassles, but doable in the driveway if need be.
The only real pain with the pan is that you have to raise the vehicle a lot more than you think to clear the front differential and to be able to snake it around the oil pump pickup tube that runs from the front to the back of the crankcase.
Otherwise, no big deal.

The rear main is under another cap and is best replaced with the trans pulled back a bit and the rear bearing cap removed and the rest of the main caps loosened to allow the crank to drop out of it's socket a little.
Very time consuming and very intimidating for the novice wrench turner I would think.
Probably a variation on that that someone who's done it recently can add to (gddyap, you out there?), but I think that's the basic concept anyway.

Good luck. Looks like quite a leak. If it turns out to be the pan, you're ahead of the game.
Since this is new to you, you might check the level to make sure it's not overfilled. You say you just did it. Do you know how many quarts of oil you put in after the drain?

Paul

 

[BoulderBronco22]

Since this is new to you, you might check the level to make sure it's not overfilled. You say you just did it. Do you know how many quarts of oil you put in after the drain?

Paul

Thanks Paul. I put 6 quarts in. I sound stupid even saying this, but I could not find the dipstick to save the life of me so I really couldn't check the level. Any idea where I may find the darn thing?

 

[DirtDonk]

it's definitely not out of the realm of possibility that the PO removed it and never put it back, so you just never know.
But stock original is on the passenger side poking up next to the exhaust manifold and up into reach between the engine and the fender well.
The stock oil pan has a flange plate riveted to the side where the dipstick tube goes in. This area usually is a big leaker for most of us. Fixable, but if left unattended will eventually leak pretty bad.

Many other Ford pans, including those that get retrofitted a lot, have the dipstick coming out of the driver's side in roughly the same orientation as the stock one.
Some later 5.0 engines had a hole right into the side of the engine block where a dipstick tube would lightly press in. Probably saved a lot of oil that way, just by taking the fitting out of the pan!

Good luck.

Paul

 

[DirtDonk]

Oh, and on car engines and some 2wd trucks of the same vintage, the dipstick was stuck through the front timing chain cover in a hole just about where the thermostat housing and alternators shares some space.
If you have one there, it means that someone in the past either retrofitted a car engine, or just a front cover.
This layout is intended to be used with "front sump" pans, where the 4wd trucks and Fox Body cars (later Mustangs, etc.) used either a "rear sump" or "double-hump" pan with the dipstick as described in the earlier post.

Paul

 

[BoulderBronco22]

it's definitely not out of the realm of possibility that the PO removed it and never put it back, so you just never know.
But stock original is on the passenger side poking up next to the exhaust manifold and up into reach between the engine and the fender well.
The stock oil pan has a flange plate riveted to the side where the dipstick tube goes in. This area usually is a big leaker for most of us. Fixable, but if left unattended will eventually leak pretty bad.

Many other Ford pans, including those that get retrofitted a lot, have the dipstick coming out of the driver's side in roughly the same orientation as the stock one.
Some later 5.0 engines had a hole right into the side of the engine block where a dipstick tube would lightly press in. Probably saved a lot of oil that way, just by taking the fitting out of the pan!

Good luck.

Paul

Thanks-- once I looked down a lot further than expected, I found it on the original stock passenger side. I may have overfilled the thing with oil-- the pic shows my hand/towel where the oil measured to and the bright shiny spot on the dipstick is where the full mark is. I am not sure this would cause the leaking since it was leaking before I changed the oil but I suppose it could cause it to leak more than usual. Most of the oil seems to be coming from the dark spot in the previous picture between the blue oil pan and the silver bellhousing cover. I would assume this may be just a bad gasket in which case replacing that gasket would fix the problem?

 

[Dark Knight]

it's definitely not out of the realm of possibility that the PO removed it and never put it back, so you just never know.
But stock original is on the passenger side poking up next to the exhaust manifold and up into reach between the engine and the fender well.
The stock oil pan has a flange plate riveted to the side where the dipstick tube goes in. This area usually is a big leaker for most of us. Fixable, but if left unattended will eventually leak pretty bad.

Many other Ford pans, including those that get retrofitted a lot, have the dipstick coming out of the driver's side in roughly the same orientation as the stock one.
Some later 5.0 engines had a hole right into the side of the engine block where a dipstick tube would lightly press in. Probably saved a lot of oil that way, just by taking the fitting out of the pan!

Good luck.

Paul

Hey Dirtdonk, my oil pan has the flange riveted to the side and is leaking fairly bad, what do you do to fix this leak?

 

[70_Steve]

Hey Dirtdonk, my oil pan has the flange riveted to the side and is leaking fairly bad, what do you do to fix this leak?

Hope you don't mind someone else besides Paul(DirtDonk) responding...

I bought a brand new pan about 2 years ago. Just sitting on the workbench I could see light through where the cork gasket was, between the pan and the dipstick flange.

I removed the flange then drilled and tapped for 1/4-28 bolts. I added 3 more bolts for a total of 7. I used RTV gasket-maker stuff between the pan and the flange, and bolted it up. I waited a couple days before installing, but no leaks.

 

[Dark Knight]

Thanks 70 Steve i will give that a try.

 

[DirtDonk]

Don't mind at all! And what he said.
Some people are lucky enough to get by with just some judiciously applied sealant, but most seem to end up doing at least part of what Steve did.
Some will "restore" it with cork and rivets, but many just use a sealer and leave the gaskets out. I like the bolt idea myself. Especially the part about adding more than the factory had.

Some later 302's (not in EB's though) had the dipstick hole cast into the side of the engine block just above the pan flange on the driver's side. That seems to work really well, but you have to sort of "tweak" the dipsticks to fit with Bronco exhaust and other stuff. Works though!

Good luck.

Paul