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How to tell correct front springs/shocks

joshnjulie1

Full Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2012
Messages
891
Loc.
Moreno Valley, Ca
Since I have the front end out and will be putting it in soon, I figured now would be a good time to possibly replace the worn out shocks and possibly the springs. I am thinking the springs only to get a hair more lift in the front to even her out (would this even accomplish that?)
My questions are; based on my search on WH's web site,

How to do I determine the correct shock to use (2 measurements)?
How do I determine what size spring I currently have to see about a slightly taller one?
What is the correlation between the shock and spring (must they match "compatability")
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
49,342
Hey Josh. It's going to be much tougher to determine all that at this point. The only sure way to see what you have is to measure things on the vehicle with the full running weight on the ground. Anything else and you're just guessing. Same for caster angle for the proper C-bushings.
But for starters, we can at least compare notes on these criteria:

Coil springs:
1. wire diameter
2. static height
3. number of coils
4. are they progressive or linear? Easiest way to tell that is to look at the top three or four coils to see if they are closer together than the rest.

From there it's still just guesswork. I have a chart we can compare to, but if they're not WH coils, those numbers kind of go out the window. If they are, but the coils are well used and perhaps sagged, those numbers go out the window. If your vehicle is going to be running heavier or lighter than normal, those numbers go out the window.
In other words, like was said above, the best time to have determined what lift you currently have (had?) was when it was still all together.

Regarding the shocks, you need:
1. length fully extended.
2. Length fully compressed.
3. A brand and part number might be super useful, but not absolutely necessary.
4. Type of mounting (eye-to-eye or eye-to-stud) will change things, but neither good nor bad.

You can look at your current shocks for a part number somewhere on the body and also measure them fully collapsed and fully extended. If they're for stock mounts, you measure from the center of the lower eye to roughly the welded on collar, where the bushings sit, up near the tip of the stud.
Then you hope that the PO had the correct shocks installed in the first place!
If you're going to be changing mounts at some point in the future, maybe sooner is better so you don't have to buy another new set of expensive shocks.

After all that, the same thing applies to the shocks as to the springs, in a basic way. The best way to determine your optimum shock would have been to measure the distance between the upper and lower mounts with the Bronco at ride height.
But since you don't have a "ride height" established yet, you just go with the manufacturer's recommendations on the appropriate shock number for the springs that you end up with.
With luck your current shocks are compatible with whatever coil you decide on.

Now the (semi?) good news. Since the springs and shocks are so easy to remove even after it's all assembled, you can put it all back together with the old stuff and then take your measurements. Since you will have done all the hard work so recently, it can take you as little as a half an hour to an hour to swap out the springs and shocks.

What about C-bushings? Do you already have new ones?
For most EB's the 7° versions will be the best. But that can depend on how well your front axle was built at Dana and what year model it came out of. Later ones (like late '75 and later) tended to have more caster than earlier ones.
Here again, the best time to determine what your caster needs are is before you take it all apart.

Of course, if yours was already apart when you bought it, or wasn't running before this, there was nothing you could have done about it anyway.
What year is yours?

So take some coil and shock measurements and I'll compare them to what my chart says and we'll see if that can give us enough info to get you on your way.

Paul
 
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joshnjulie1

joshnjulie1

Full Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2012
Messages
891
Loc.
Moreno Valley, Ca
As of right now, I know I have the 13-21 shocks. I have the thing up in the air so measuring anything else is pointless. The GREAT news is I noticed the upper shock mount is cracked at the weakest point where the hole the shock stud goes though outward towards the tire. I will now have to have this welded up. Everything is appearing to be stock. I think for right now, I will replace the shocks, leave in the springs, and get this thing back together and on the ground before I spend any more money until I am certain.
Could you explain the bushing thing again about the 7 degree etc? What is stock and what do I need to look for when purchasing?
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
49,342
Sorry if you know some of this already, but I'll go for all of the basics just in case you don't.

The C-bushings that are clamped around the axle tube by the radius arm caps were rubber from the factory with zero offset. Using them as "0-degree" then, the aftermarket molded polyurethane replacements can generally be had in 2°, 4° and 7° offsets. There are 4.5, 6 and some 7.5 degree offsets too, but not as common.

The offset is a tool that the aftermarket developed to adjust the "caster" value with regard to the front-end alignment. Caster is the amount of tilt away from vertical of a straight line between the upper and lower steering pivots. In our case, the ball-joints.
A rearward tilt at the top is "Positive Caster" and is what we try to achieve with our Broncos to improve (or even introduce!) straighter and more stable driving and some return-to-center if possible.

If you imagine the suspension traveling in an arc up and down, pivoting on the rear mounts of the radius arms, you can see that as the suspension moves, Caster changes. More to the positive side when the tires move up, more to the negative side when they move down.
When you lift the suspension then, you reduce positive caster and the offset bushings try to bring some of it back.

As we've found in the intervening years, a good number (majority maybe?) of EB's ,before about '75 or so, didn't even have the called-for caster right from the factory. Lifting those trucks just made a bad thing even worse.
For that reason, even though "the book" calls for about a 4 degree bushing with a 3" lift, I've just been telling anyone with a pre-'75 EB to just jump right to 7 and hope that it's enough.

The best way to know what you have and what you will end up with is to have the caster reading taken before the vehicle is disassembled. Which in most cases is not feasible it seems, just like in your case.
Factory specification over the years varied from between about 3.25°+ to 4.75°+ caster. Those with power steering can get away with higher numbers (more positive caster makes it harder to steer too) and those with bigger tires like to have even more than normal. Sometimes you're lucky to just get close to the minimum with an EB, so it's nice to know what you will need ahead of time.
You CAN have too much positive caster, but it takes quite a bit to get there on a Bronco.

On a side note, there are ways, other than C-bushings, to correct caster, but the bushings are the easiest and most direct and least expensive (usually) for most people. And, there is a point of diminishing returns with our rigs. The reason for the 7 degree limit on bushings is that even that amount is putting some front driveshaft u-joints near their limit. Since as you tilt the steering yokes back, you tilt the pinion down. At some point then, if you have to add more positive caster, the only method left that can work to both factor's benefit is to cut off the steering yokes (also called "outer C's") and rotate them back independent of the axle tubes. That way the pinion yoke can get moved back up inline with the driveshaft and the steering yokes can be rotated to whatever caster reading you want or need.

Sorry for the long-winded dissertation, but I thought you might not know any of that yet, and this would be a good thing for anyone else to read who's just now getting into these aspects of 4wd truck modifications.

As with most things we talk about here, making a change to even one little aspect of a vehicle leads to several other things that you have to co-modify so they can continue to work together safely.

Paul
 
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joshnjulie1

joshnjulie1

Full Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2012
Messages
891
Loc.
Moreno Valley, Ca
I did not know most of that. I think to play it safe I will leave in the springs and replace the shocks for now until I can get better aquainted with these issues. Thank you.

When I removed the old shocks, they had size as 21-15. Would I be able to use standard Rancho 5000's with a size of 21-13? What would this 2 inch difference reflect on?
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
49,342
That should be fine. The extra 2 inches is actually in your favor, if you can use it. It allows your shocks to compress an extra 2" before they bottom out. A good thing, but it might be moot if the rest of your suspension is not able to take advantage of it.
But it's not a bad thing that I can see.

Kind of strange to see such a difference between two brands of shock, but I guess with so many design strategies, it shouldn't surprise me.

One thing to think about though, when deciding to purchase new shocks. Without knowing what height you're going to end up with, you should prepare yourself for perhaps buying another set of new shocks when you decide what springs to go with.
That's because the length of the shock is directly proportioned to the height of the springs.
Just something to think about when mulling over which direction to proceed.

Paul
 
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