Hydro Steering

[Broncobowsher]

Wrong! There are some heavy trucks with full hydro steering, along with some of the newer high-end cars that are "fly by wire," and have no mechanical linkage for the steering. They are perfectly legal to drive on the street in all 50 states.

I've driven a couple of well-built full hyrdo rigs on the street, they were great and did self center. And, contrary to some opinions, you DO still have steering if the engine quits.

The drive by wire cars still have a hidden mechanical link. At least all the road worth sellable ones I have seen do. Prototype/show cars (GM Hy-wire?) don't need to comply with safety standards and can do whatever they want to impress us.

If you want to get spooked a little, the Pryis hybrid thingy has completely computer generated brake feel. You press a master cylinder, that pushes brake fluid into a 42 volt brake control module that tells the hybrid system how much generating power to make to give you the feeling of brakes working. The brake pads only work at parking lot speeds or heavy braking. But if you do loose power to the brake control module, the default is non-power brakes. Every new car I see now has drive by wire throttle, even the cheap Kerean cars. And for more fun, the power steering is ditching the engine driven hydrolic pump and going the a electric motor that is also computer controlled and in the column or the rack.

Last I checked there has to be enough redundt systems to bring the vehicle to a safe stop (steering and brakes) in the even of a complete vehicle power failure (engine stops and no eletrical). The big trucks running full hydro have accumulators (I just tossed the info that had the actual SAE spec that they should meet) to give redundent power after a system failure.

 

[sprinksbeme]

Mad I am just finishing up my full hydro conversion I am using a PSC orbital valve with a double ram. It is really response and self centers reasonably well. PSC is now twicking my valve to have some better street manners.
Here is the new reservoir and the orbital valve mounted in the stock gear box location. I moved the front end forward about 2.5"
Marty

 

[Madgyver]

Thanks, Marty

OK guys, about that legallity of hydro steering on the street I really don't care. Because there is ways around the system to pass our reconstruction laws, I'll just switch VINs...... oops, I didn't say that...... %)
Plus I am competent enough to know if my rig is safe or not to drive on the street.

Just looking what you folks are using and what kind of results you got, So that I don't need to go through the trial and error route..... Which can be expensive... Like my expensive aluminum radiator lesson...

 

[godsotherson]

You must be wicked smart, to know all DMV laws in all 50 states. I'll forward this to the NH DMV and tell them they are wrong and you are right. Thanks for clearing this up, I've had conversations about this before with them....I believe it was when I was getting my inspection license. Signed, Always Learning.

Thanks, I am really smart, don't know that I would call it wicked. But, I am
confident enough with my statement to offer YOU ($100) one hundred dollars to produce written law from any state pronouncing hydo or beadlocks to be illegal. I am a Man of my Word, you will have no problem collecting the cash. I will wait patiently......

 

[357Bronco]

Thanks, I am really smart, don't know that I would call it wicked. But, I am
confident enough with my statement to offer YOU ($100) one hundred dollars to produce written law from any state pronouncing hydo or beadlocks to be illegal. I am a Man of my Word, you will have no problem collecting the cash. I will wait patiently......

I believe you, thats why I signed "always learning". When it comes right down to it the final decision is in the hands of the mechanic writing the sticker. Thats what the DMV has told us when you get into custom built non conventional stuff like that. Thats all I was saying to begin with, just throwing it out there, I in no way claim to know all. I also would be hesitant to sticker a vehicle with full hydro,for liability reasons. Also, reading off a computer screen is one thing, having a conversation in person, is another. Maybe you and a couple others took me the wrong way, but you knew that, cause your wicked smart!
;D;D

 

[OX1]

As several have mentoned above you will likely have a hard time finding anything that specifically makes full hydro steering illegal. If it is built properly then it will be just as safe or perhaps even safer than mechanical linkage. (The statutes I found in the 3 or 4 states I looked at specified that the steering must be safe and in my state it has a specific limit on how much slop there is in the steering) It's already been mentioned that large equipment that is street legal is often hydrostatic and there are new cars coming out that are also similar designs with no mechanical linkage.

This does not mean that there are no states where it would be illegal. I believe that in some states they have blanket laws that could cover it. (In these states it may even be considered illegal to put a roll cage in an EB)

It IS illegal in NJ. How do I know, because EVERYTHING that is not the stock type suspension, axles, steering, brakes, etc is. %)

 

[Steve]

I believe you, thats why I signed "always learning". When it comes right down to it the final decision is in the hands of the mechanic writing the sticker.

Just an FYI, many states don't have any inspection sticker or inspection program of any kind. Building a rig is much easier in one of those states because you just have to follow the law, not the personal opinion of some mechanic who's more worried about CYA than what the actual law says.

If you're thinking of going with full hydro steering, do it right and, IMO, definitely go with a double ended ram, not a single one.

 

[Madgyver]

All my rigs are legal, I even got big a$$ motor and a bathtub in one and it didn't matter........ %) I am wicked smart...

OK back to the topic..
Marty,
Got any pics of the double ram set-up down under?
Please post them.. I'll be asking about your coilovers later...
Aloha,
madgyver

 

[76Broncofromhell]

First of all this is not the scary steering question thread. If you guys want to see something that scares me, you should look a few threads back about the Aluminum tubing.

CA's laws are very simple on braking and steering:

"...must be in good working order and stop from 20 mph in 25 feet."

New Jersey's laws (and some other rust-belt states) are rumored to be the most draconian regarding vehicle modification, so it appears 357Bronco and godsotherson are both right.

 

[SaddleUp]

Getting back on topic again.....

Here is a direct link to the tech article that covers the basics on this. http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/PR-Hydro_Steering/index.html
It appears to promote a particular company but still does a good job of describing the ins and outs of it.

PSC also has a bit of technical info. but it really needs to be added to the above to be useful. http://www.pscmotorsports.com/information.php?info_id=3&osCsid=efe0258ae74573b4f8f189260e0d84ed It appears they also have a couple of complete systems available now however I'm not sure if it would be cheaper to do it that way or piece it together (I don't need the pump or reservoir myself since I have a couple of good pumps and can build my own reservoir) http://www.pscmotorsports.com/index.php?cPath=151_195

 

[pacrat]

I went the "cheap " way,as I know of a bunch of us that have done it this way. The used 'fork lift' orbital valve steering unit.Works great for a trailor rig, & I can get it down the road @ 55 when I have to drive short distances to the trail(6-7 m.)BUT the problem I ran into is -finding rebuild kits(o-rings) for some of these units(most units are old). Go with a new name brand unit. Patrick

 

[bronco60-niner]

I'm currently looking into doing this myself. My question is, how does the steering actually get attached to the system? Anyone have any pictures of their bronco with fully hydro showing the actually steering shaft and wheel connection?

 

[SaddleUp]

I'm currently looking into doing this myself. My question is, how does the steering actually get attached to the system? Anyone have any pictures of their bronco with fully hydro showing the actually steering shaft and wheel connection?

Check the information at the link I posted above. The wheel connects through the column to an orbital valve. The valve can be mounted at the firewall or frame. Whenever I get around to it I plan to mount one on the firewall.

 

[bronco60-niner]

Check the information at the link I posted above. The wheel connects through the column to an orbital valve. The valve can be mounted at the firewall or frame. Whenever I get around to it I plan to mount one on the firewall.

Yeah I read through those, lots of good info. I was more or less looking for some pictures of fininshed installs in a bronco.