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I need some help identifying the rear axle in my 72.

randbjorn

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Not sure what the donor was for this rear end in my 72. I think it’s D44 maybe from a scout? Looks to have an aftermarket disc brake kit. Appears to be same/similar width to a factory 9” but I haven’t measured it yet. Hubs are interesting. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 

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randbjorn

randbjorn

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dmoses42

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Not an upgrade to the original 9" for sure, probably a convenient replacement. The cover looks like a D44 to me, I think you should clean off the axle tubes (Scotchbrite or similar) and find the Bill of Materials number and find that number in the link I sent and it will tell you what its out of, original ratio, limited slip or open diff, etc. I'd guess its either from a Scout or CJ, but I'm not an expert...
 

dmoses42

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That BOM number can be very lightly stamped into the tube, sandpaper or a wire wheel might make it not legible, hence the Scotchbrite recommendation.
 

jamesroney

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Not sure what the donor was for this rear end in my 72. I think it’s D44 maybe from a scout? Looks to have an aftermarket disc brake kit. Appears to be same/similar width to a factory 9” but I haven’t measured it yet. Hubs are interesting. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
It is exactly what everybody thinks it is. It is a standard rotation low pinion dana 44 from a 1/2 ton scout or travelall, or any number of early gladiators. Impossible to know without pulling the brake hubs and seeing what kind of housing flanges it has. But most likely 6 bolt Jeep pattern. (which is identical to your drum brake 30/44 front pattern.

It looks funny because it has a high pinion front cover from a Ford on it. Really good idea because it brings the fill level back to where it should be. You need to pull the cover and post a pic of what's inside. You might get a bonus!

Brakes are standard Cadillac Seville calipers over Ford Rotors.

The hubs are full float Warn, probably 19 spline with drive slugs. And it will have 30 spline inners. The Dana 44 is a VAST improvement over the original (junk) C7AW-E Ford 9 inch with 28 spline axles. Mostly because the Dana 44 is capable of running a real limited slip, instead of the Ford Equa-Lok, or Traction Lok.

Note that once you put a 31 spline axle in a 9 inch, it leapfrogs the D44 in strength. But the limited slip remains pathetic. But if you add a Nodular case, upgrade to a Detroit Locker, and add a daytona pinion support, and install 31 spline axles...Yeah, the 9 inch can be decent. Which is pretty much where the 9 inch ended up in 1986 ended up when they killed it. Also happens to be the configuration in the 1967-70 Shelby/Boss/Cobra Jet/ cars.
 
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randbjorn

randbjorn

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It is exactly what everybody thinks it is. It is a standard rotation low pinion dana 44 from a 1/2 ton scout or travelall, or any number of early gladiators. Impossible to know without pulling the brake hubs and seeing what kind of housing flanges it has. But most likely 6 bolt Jeep pattern. (which is identical to your drum brake 30/44 front pattern.

It looks funny because it has a high pinion front cover from a Ford on it. Really good idea because it brings the fill level back to where it should be. You need to pull the cover and post a pic of what's inside. You might get a bonus!

Brakes are standard Cadillac Seville calipers over Ford Rotors.

The hubs are full float Warn, probably 19 spline with drive slugs. And it will have 30 spline inners. The Dana 44 is a VAST improvement over the original (junk) C7AW-E Ford 9 inch with 28 spline axles. Mostly because the Dana 44 is capable of running a real limited slip, instead of the Ford Equa-Lok, or Traction Lok.

Note that once you put a 31 spline axle in a 9 inch, it leapfrogs the D44 in strength. But the limited slip remains pathetic. But if you add a Nodular case, upgrade to a Detroit Locker, and add a daytona pinion support, and install 31 spline axles...Yeah, the 9 inch can be decent. Which is pretty much where the 9 inch ended up in 1986 ended up when they killed it. Also happens to be the configuration in the 1967-70 Shelby/Boss/Cobra Jet/ cars.
Thank you for the detailed response! I purchased this bronco a couple years ago and stuck it out back. Finally got the title work done and some time to play with it so I’m just figuring out what I’m working with. It’s has front and rear ARB’s that I don’t think have many miles on them. Compressor under the hood looks brand new. Looks like an NP435 with a twin sticked Dana 20 behind what is now, a pretty healthy sounding 302.

I was told it got parked cause it wouldn’t start but a new fuel pump was all it needed. Actually, 2 new fuel pumps is what it needed. First brand new one was bad out of the box (that was a fun afternoon). Seems odd someone would put the time and money into it they did only to have a fuel pump stop them in their tracks but maybe they burned out on it. Idk?

Anyways, I was going to drop and clean the tank this morning but I noticed a large patch on it last night so now I’m going to swap it with good used one I have on hand. Hopefully I’ll get to drive it this afternoon and see what else needs immediate attention. Thanks again for the solid information. I really do appreciate it!
 
Last edited:

bmc69

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It’s has front and rear ARB’s that I don’t think have many miles on them. Compressor under the hood looks brand new. Looks like an NP435 with a twin sticked Dana 20 behind what is now, a pretty healthy sounding 302.
Nice!!
 

toddz69

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It is exactly what everybody thinks it is. It is a standard rotation low pinion dana 44 from a 1/2 ton scout or travelall, or any number of early gladiators. Impossible to know without pulling the brake hubs and seeing what kind of housing flanges it has. But most likely 6 bolt Jeep pattern. (which is identical to your drum brake 30/44 front pattern.

It looks funny because it has a high pinion front cover from a Ford on it. Really good idea because it brings the fill level back to where it should be. You need to pull the cover and post a pic of what's inside. You might get a bonus!

Brakes are standard Cadillac Seville calipers over Ford Rotors.

The hubs are full float Warn, probably 19 spline with drive slugs. And it will have 30 spline inners. The Dana 44 is a VAST improvement over the original (junk) C7AW-E Ford 9 inch with 28 spline axles. Mostly because the Dana 44 is capable of running a real limited slip, instead of the Ford Equa-Lok, or Traction Lok.

Note that once you put a 31 spline axle in a 9 inch, it leapfrogs the D44 in strength. But the limited slip remains pathetic. But if you add a Nodular case, upgrade to a Detroit Locker, and add a daytona pinion support, and install 31 spline axles...Yeah, the 9 inch can be decent. Which is pretty much where the 9 inch ended up in 1986 ended up when they killed it. Also happens to be the configuration in the 1967-70 Shelby/Boss/Cobra Jet/ cars.
Two tweaks on this excellent explantation in case the OP wants/needs to replace parts at some point on the axle. The brake rotors are from a late 70s/early 80s Jeep CJ. And if the outer drive slugs are the same on this conversion as they were for the 9" floater conversion, they're 30 spline outers. Many folks were disappointed when they found they couldn't just swap a set of 19 spline Warn locking hubs in when their originals failed. Warn used a 30 spline set for their kits.

Todd Z.
 
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randbjorn

randbjorn

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Two tweaks on this excellent explantation in case the OP wants/needs to replace parts at some point on the axle. The brake rotors are from a late 70s/early 80s Jeep CJ. And if the outer drive slugs are the same on this conversion as they were for the 9" floater conversion, they're 30 spline outers. Many folks were disappointed when they found they couldn't just swap a set of 19 spline Warn locking hubs in when their originals failed. Warn used a 30 spline set for their kits.

Todd Z.


You read my mind on the replacement parts so thanks for that! Are the calipers Cadillac Seville as previously stated? If so, what vintage? Any info is greatly appreciated.
 

Broncobowsher

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Simply put, it is a strange conglomeration of parts. Most are pretty good. Someone put a lot of work into this. For the amount of work, surprised the center section isn't a 60. But often a lot of this is driven by what is available to start with. Maybe he had a deal on D44 ARBs?
 

toddz69

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You read my mind on the replacement parts so thanks for that! Are the calipers Cadillac Seville as previously stated? If so, what vintage? Any info is greatly appreciated.
Yes, they are. A good application to ask for at the parts store (or to order online) is 79-85 Cadillac Eldorado. These calipers are now reproduced as well and sold by a wide variety of vendors.

Todd Z.
 
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randbjorn

randbjorn

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Yes, they are. A good application to ask for at the parts store (or to order online) is 79-85 Cadillac Eldorado. These calipers are now reproduced as well and sold by a wide variety of vendors.

Todd Z.
Awesome. Thank you Todd Z!
 
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randbjorn

randbjorn

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Simply put, it is a strange conglomeration of parts. Most are pretty good. Someone put a lot of work into this. For the amount of work, surprised the center section isn't a 60. But often a lot of this is driven by what is available to start with. Maybe he had a deal on D44 ARBs?
Right? Had me scratching my head a bit but if everything works, I'm happy.
 

jamesroney

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Yes, they are. A good application to ask for at the parts store (or to order online) is 79-85 Cadillac Eldorado. These calipers are now reproduced as well and sold by a wide variety of vendors.

Todd Z.
So a little tweak right back at you... Here's some useful jargon that might help in the spare parts look-up.

There are two different sized Cadillac calipers. There is the Seville caliper, which is the small GM caliper, and there is the El Dorado caliper, which is the large GM caliper. The Seville Caliper came out in 1977 and is the one that everyone pretty much adapted right away. It has a 2.5 inch piston, and it's looking for about a 15/16 thick rotor. In 79, the Seville got an oddball caliper with metric fittings, and a 2-1/8 inch bore. Then from 80-85, the Seville got the same GM metric small caliper with the 2 inch bore. The bolt spacing on this caliper is about 5 inches.

The El Dorado got rear discs in 1976, and those ran from 76-78...but they are the large format GM caliper with a 2.5 inch bore, and SAE fittings. It is looking for a 1.205 inch thick rotor. This is the ubiquitous GM caliper that you will see on most 1-ton rear axle disc conversion. The bolt spacing on the caliper is about 7 inches. In 1979, the El Dorado got the small format caliper. In the jargon of the day, the El Dorado got the Seville caliper.

In the JEEP world, anytime someone says "El Dorado" disc brakes, it is GENERALLY accepted that they mean large format, thick rotor, 76-78 GM Big caliper.
Anytime someone says "Seville" caliper, it means small format, thin rotor, 80-85 GM metric small caliper. Anytime someone puts a big piston 77-78 Seville caliper on a rear end...someone usually asks: "why did you do that?"

As mentioned above, the Seville caliper fits the rotor thickness of about 15/16 inch, and the Jeep CJ5 caliper happens to have a 7/8 thick rotor. So Viola! Those go together.

So when people say Cadillac caliper, it was always referenced in Context. Jeep rear disc guys meant early Seville calipers. GM 14 bolt guys meant El Dorado calipers. This was back in 1979...so nobody had the foresight to think that Cadillac would someday use the tiny Seville Calipers on an El Dorado! So if you keep the 1980's point of reference...It was all very simple. Generally, the name goes to the first application or deployment. The 79 El Dorado is the oddball that breaks the naming convention. Please remember that we are in junkyard shopping context now. You cannot see the caliper piston bore when the caliper is mounted on a wrecked axle in the mud. And you only get a few seconds to look at it as the yard-monkey walks you around. So you see something strange, and you peek underneath, and you notice a rear disc axle. The conversation usually goes like: "When did they start putting Cadillac calipers on the Camaro?"


1. El Dorado Caliper - (76-78 El Dorado) Large format, SAE fitting, 2.5 inch bore, 1-1/8 rotor thickness.
2. Seville Caliper. - (77-78 Seville) Small format SAE fitting, 2.5 bore, 15/16 rotor thickness.
3. Camaro Caliper - (78-81 Camaro + 79 Seville) Small format, metric fitting, 2.5 bore, 15/16 rotor thickness.
4. Late Seville Caliper - (80-85 Seville + 79-85 El Dorado) Small format, metric fitting, 2-1/8 bore, 15/16 rotor thickness.

That ought to confuse pretty much everybody, but it makes perfect sense to me. The Late Seville caliper is often mis-named the Metric Caliper, or the late El Dorado caliper. It is also often just named "Seville Caliper" for short. This is because the 77-78 Seville Caliper was very rare, and in short supply in 1980. The parking brake was problematic, and they didn't last long in a wrecking yard. So you couldn't find them, you couldn't see them, and from 10 feet away, they were exactly the same.

Now when someone says "Cadillac caliper," I just smile and nod. And ask for pictures.
 

toddz69

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So a little tweak right back at you... Here's some useful jargon that might help in the spare parts look-up.

There are two different sized Cadillac calipers. There is the Seville caliper, which is the small GM caliper, and there is the El Dorado caliper, which is the large GM caliper. The Seville Caliper came out in 1977 and is the one that everyone pretty much adapted right away. It has a 2.5 inch piston, and it's looking for about a 15/16 thick rotor. In 79, the Seville got an oddball caliper with metric fittings, and a 2-1/8 inch bore. Then from 80-85, the Seville got the same GM metric small caliper with the 2 inch bore. The bolt spacing on this caliper is about 5 inches.

The El Dorado got rear discs in 1976, and those ran from 76-78...but they are the large format GM caliper with a 2.5 inch bore, and SAE fittings. It is looking for a 1.205 inch thick rotor. This is the ubiquitous GM caliper that you will see on most 1-ton rear axle disc conversion. The bolt spacing on the caliper is about 7 inches. In 1979, the El Dorado got the small format caliper. In the jargon of the day, the El Dorado got the Seville caliper.

In the JEEP world, anytime someone says "El Dorado" disc brakes, it is GENERALLY accepted that they mean large format, thick rotor, 76-78 GM Big caliper.
Anytime someone says "Seville" caliper, it means small format, thin rotor, 80-85 GM metric small caliper. Anytime someone puts a big piston 77-78 Seville caliper on a rear end...someone usually asks: "why did you do that?"

As mentioned above, the Seville caliper fits the rotor thickness of about 15/16 inch, and the Jeep CJ5 caliper happens to have a 7/8 thick rotor. So Viola! Those go together.

So when people say Cadillac caliper, it was always referenced in Context. Jeep rear disc guys meant early Seville calipers. GM 14 bolt guys meant El Dorado calipers. This was back in 1979...so nobody had the foresight to think that Cadillac would someday use the tiny Seville Calipers on an El Dorado! So if you keep the 1980's point of reference...It was all very simple. Generally, the name goes to the first application or deployment. The 79 El Dorado is the oddball that breaks the naming convention. Please remember that we are in junkyard shopping context now. You cannot see the caliper piston bore when the caliper is mounted on a wrecked axle in the mud. And you only get a few seconds to look at it as the yard-monkey walks you around. So you see something strange, and you peek underneath, and you notice a rear disc axle. The conversation usually goes like: "When did they start putting Cadillac calipers on the Camaro?"


1. El Dorado Caliper - (76-78 El Dorado) Large format, SAE fitting, 2.5 inch bore, 1-1/8 rotor thickness.
2. Seville Caliper. - (77-78 Seville) Small format SAE fitting, 2.5 bore, 15/16 rotor thickness.
3. Camaro Caliper - (78-81 Camaro + 79 Seville) Small format, metric fitting, 2.5 bore, 15/16 rotor thickness.
4. Late Seville Caliper - (80-85 Seville + 79-85 El Dorado) Small format, metric fitting, 2-1/8 bore, 15/16 rotor thickness.

That ought to confuse pretty much everybody, but it makes perfect sense to me. The Late Seville caliper is often mis-named the Metric Caliper, or the late El Dorado caliper. It is also often just named "Seville Caliper" for short. This is because the 77-78 Seville Caliper was very rare, and in short supply in 1980. The parking brake was problematic, and they didn't last long in a wrecking yard. So you couldn't find them, you couldn't see them, and from 10 feet away, they were exactly the same.

Now when someone says "Cadillac caliper," I just smile and nod. And ask for pictures.
Lots of good info there! I'm not as hardcore into the Jeep world as you are so I never adopted that lexicon, right or wrong. I was always aware of the larger 76-78 El Dorado calipers but in my experience about 98% of the people that knew of the 79-newer El Dorado stuff (late Seville per your chart above) didn't know of the earlier version so it wasn't an issue for confusion. From a junkyarder's perspective, the '79-later cars (and their '80-newer Olds Toronado and Buick Riviera cousins) vastly outnumbered the earlier cars so we always had a lot more of those to choose from. I think the 77-78 Seville had one caliper in front of the axle centerline and one behind the axle centerline, or was that the '79 model?

Todd Z.
 
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