This topic comes up regularly, but it seems to be limited to anecdotes, rumors, and whatever some random DMV employee thought was appropriate. I'd like to delve a bit deeper; I think I'll benefit from some analysis, and I suspect some others will, too.
First, a caveat -- this is a complicated topic that involves interpretation of state and federal law. If you have questions, you should CYA - Call Your Attorney.
Also, sorry for shouting, but WHAT FOLLOWS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE.
1. Good to Go: Selling or Buying a Bronco that has a VIN stamp on the frame that matches the title and the VIN on the warranty tag. No issues here, assuming nothing has been altered.
2. Likely Good to Go: Selling or buying a Bronco that has a VIN stamp on the frame that matches the title, but the glovebox warranty tag is missing. I say likely because most states seem to consider the frame VIN to be the official VIN since it's not easily removed.
QUESTION: Does anyone have any factory Ford literature or documentation of the frame VIN versus the warranty tag? Maybe something in an assembly manual?
2a. There is a basis in Federal regulatory law for the frame VIN as the official VIN - 49 CFR vol. 6 § 565.13(e), which states, "The VIN of each vehicle shall appear clearly and indelibly upon either a part of the vehicle, other than the glazing, that is not designed to be removed except for repair or upon a separate plate or label that is permanently affixed to such a part." For an early Bronco, since the warranty tag is attached a part that can be removed in 30 seconds with a screwdriver, I do not think the glovebox door qualifies as "a part that is not designed to be removed except for repair" even thought the warranty tag is "permanently affixed" to it. Having said that, I believe this regulation was promulgated after the last EB was produced in 1977.
2b. Anecdotal evidence -- many, but not all, DMV inspectors ignore the glovebox warranty tag, searching for the frame tag. I understand some states have a handbook on where to find VIN stamps/tags -- does anyone have any more info on any such book?
2c. If Marti is able to sell warranty tags, presumably in all 50 states, without being prosecuted for it, I suspect they have solid legal analysis to back this up. Has anyone contacted them to ask?
2d. I believe the above would also apply to purchasing a Bronco frame with a title and no glovebox door. If the official VIN stamp is the frame, it should not matter where the body comes from. In other words, if you have a solid Bronco frame with a title and a rusted out body, you should be good to go if you buy a complete reproduction body for it or use a solid tub from another Bronco.
3. Depends on circumstances: Using reproduction frame. As I understand it, these are sold with no VIN stamp, which is the way it should be. However, I am aware of no circumstance in which a private vehicle owner is authorized to stamp a VIN on one of these frames. Three options:
3a. Don't stamp the frame at all, but that could be problematic if/when you sell the vehicle.
3b. In coordination with the DMV and/or appropriate law enforcement agency in your state, attach a state-issued VIN to the frame. State law will determine how you go about this.
3c. If your frame is damaged (accident or structural rust), you may be able to "repair" your frame by replacing damaged portions, presumably keeping the piece of original frame where your VIN is stamped. I would want to check with DMV and/or state police to see how this can be done, but Federal law does allow for a "person who repairs such vehicle or part" to remove, obliterate, tamper with the VIN "if the removal, obliteration, tampering, or alteration is reasonably necessary for the repair..."
4. Not Good to Go: Removing VIN from frame (or altering it), except in very limited circumstances (scrap processor, for repair, done in accordance with state law, etc). Removing the VIN runs afoul of federal criminal law which makes it a felony to "(1) knowingly removes, obliterates, tampers with, or alters an identification number for a motor vehicle or motor vehicle part..." 18 U.S. Code section 511.
5. Good to Go? Selling a Title and Glovebox Door with Warranty Tag. I am aware of no prohibition on selling a title and glovebox door with Warranty Tag attached. The title itself is a piece of paper that arguably has minimal value when it is sold by itself as a novelty item. When you sell the title with a glovebox door and warranty tag, you are still selling two items that are legal to sell, right? But we're starting to get into murky waters. If you sell a title and Warranty Tag to someone who you know plans to use it to title and register a vehicle that has no title, you are on shaky ground, at best.
6. Not Good to Go? Using a purchased title and glovebox warranty tag to title and register your vehicle. If you haven't removed, obliterated, or falsified the VIN stamp on the frame, you may not be in violation of federal criminal law, but I suspect you're at least in violation of state law, regulation, etc. Also, if you do not have the correct frame with VIN, you may never be able to pass a state inspection, will have issues when you sell it, etc.
7. Good to Go. Getting a bonded title, if your state allows it. Texas does, and it involves a fair amount of paperwork, a detailed inspection from vehicle theft police (they absolutely check the frame VIN - I've had this done twice) and they run the VIN through a database to see if it comes up as stolen. In Texas, you have to purchase a bond (I think I paid $100 or so for the actual bond) and your title becomes a regular title after 3 years. Some states will not title/register out of state vehicles with bonded titles (I think Mississippi is one) so do your homework here.
8. Good to Go? Registering your vehicle in a state that doesn't require you to live in the state. I believe Vermont does this, and as I understand it, they don't require a title. You just have to pay tax (I believe this costs around $1,000 for a typical EB). I don't have any personal experience here.
9. Not Good to Go. Selling a Bronco with documentation, paperwork, title, VIN issues if you fail to disclose the issues. You may not be able to legally sell the vehicle even if you disclose the issues, but even if you can sell the vehicle, you're on the hook for fraud if you misrepresent or fail to disclose.
Ok, sorry for writing a book, but as I said above, it's complicated. I'm happy to do what I can to try to elaborate or clarify if anyone has questions.
Again, THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE. If you have questions about your particular situation, your best bet is to contact your local DMV, a local attorney, state police, etc.
First, a caveat -- this is a complicated topic that involves interpretation of state and federal law. If you have questions, you should CYA - Call Your Attorney.
Also, sorry for shouting, but WHAT FOLLOWS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE.
1. Good to Go: Selling or Buying a Bronco that has a VIN stamp on the frame that matches the title and the VIN on the warranty tag. No issues here, assuming nothing has been altered.
2. Likely Good to Go: Selling or buying a Bronco that has a VIN stamp on the frame that matches the title, but the glovebox warranty tag is missing. I say likely because most states seem to consider the frame VIN to be the official VIN since it's not easily removed.
QUESTION: Does anyone have any factory Ford literature or documentation of the frame VIN versus the warranty tag? Maybe something in an assembly manual?
2a. There is a basis in Federal regulatory law for the frame VIN as the official VIN - 49 CFR vol. 6 § 565.13(e), which states, "The VIN of each vehicle shall appear clearly and indelibly upon either a part of the vehicle, other than the glazing, that is not designed to be removed except for repair or upon a separate plate or label that is permanently affixed to such a part." For an early Bronco, since the warranty tag is attached a part that can be removed in 30 seconds with a screwdriver, I do not think the glovebox door qualifies as "a part that is not designed to be removed except for repair" even thought the warranty tag is "permanently affixed" to it. Having said that, I believe this regulation was promulgated after the last EB was produced in 1977.
2b. Anecdotal evidence -- many, but not all, DMV inspectors ignore the glovebox warranty tag, searching for the frame tag. I understand some states have a handbook on where to find VIN stamps/tags -- does anyone have any more info on any such book?
2c. If Marti is able to sell warranty tags, presumably in all 50 states, without being prosecuted for it, I suspect they have solid legal analysis to back this up. Has anyone contacted them to ask?
2d. I believe the above would also apply to purchasing a Bronco frame with a title and no glovebox door. If the official VIN stamp is the frame, it should not matter where the body comes from. In other words, if you have a solid Bronco frame with a title and a rusted out body, you should be good to go if you buy a complete reproduction body for it or use a solid tub from another Bronco.
3. Depends on circumstances: Using reproduction frame. As I understand it, these are sold with no VIN stamp, which is the way it should be. However, I am aware of no circumstance in which a private vehicle owner is authorized to stamp a VIN on one of these frames. Three options:
3a. Don't stamp the frame at all, but that could be problematic if/when you sell the vehicle.
3b. In coordination with the DMV and/or appropriate law enforcement agency in your state, attach a state-issued VIN to the frame. State law will determine how you go about this.
3c. If your frame is damaged (accident or structural rust), you may be able to "repair" your frame by replacing damaged portions, presumably keeping the piece of original frame where your VIN is stamped. I would want to check with DMV and/or state police to see how this can be done, but Federal law does allow for a "person who repairs such vehicle or part" to remove, obliterate, tamper with the VIN "if the removal, obliteration, tampering, or alteration is reasonably necessary for the repair..."
4. Not Good to Go: Removing VIN from frame (or altering it), except in very limited circumstances (scrap processor, for repair, done in accordance with state law, etc). Removing the VIN runs afoul of federal criminal law which makes it a felony to "(1) knowingly removes, obliterates, tampers with, or alters an identification number for a motor vehicle or motor vehicle part..." 18 U.S. Code section 511.
5. Good to Go? Selling a Title and Glovebox Door with Warranty Tag. I am aware of no prohibition on selling a title and glovebox door with Warranty Tag attached. The title itself is a piece of paper that arguably has minimal value when it is sold by itself as a novelty item. When you sell the title with a glovebox door and warranty tag, you are still selling two items that are legal to sell, right? But we're starting to get into murky waters. If you sell a title and Warranty Tag to someone who you know plans to use it to title and register a vehicle that has no title, you are on shaky ground, at best.
6. Not Good to Go? Using a purchased title and glovebox warranty tag to title and register your vehicle. If you haven't removed, obliterated, or falsified the VIN stamp on the frame, you may not be in violation of federal criminal law, but I suspect you're at least in violation of state law, regulation, etc. Also, if you do not have the correct frame with VIN, you may never be able to pass a state inspection, will have issues when you sell it, etc.
7. Good to Go. Getting a bonded title, if your state allows it. Texas does, and it involves a fair amount of paperwork, a detailed inspection from vehicle theft police (they absolutely check the frame VIN - I've had this done twice) and they run the VIN through a database to see if it comes up as stolen. In Texas, you have to purchase a bond (I think I paid $100 or so for the actual bond) and your title becomes a regular title after 3 years. Some states will not title/register out of state vehicles with bonded titles (I think Mississippi is one) so do your homework here.
8. Good to Go? Registering your vehicle in a state that doesn't require you to live in the state. I believe Vermont does this, and as I understand it, they don't require a title. You just have to pay tax (I believe this costs around $1,000 for a typical EB). I don't have any personal experience here.
9. Not Good to Go. Selling a Bronco with documentation, paperwork, title, VIN issues if you fail to disclose the issues. You may not be able to legally sell the vehicle even if you disclose the issues, but even if you can sell the vehicle, you're on the hook for fraud if you misrepresent or fail to disclose.
Ok, sorry for writing a book, but as I said above, it's complicated. I'm happy to do what I can to try to elaborate or clarify if anyone has questions.
Again, THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE. If you have questions about your particular situation, your best bet is to contact your local DMV, a local attorney, state police, etc.
That '66 Fairlane w 428 and 4-speed sounds like lots of fun!;D
