James Duff lower coil retainers don't look right

[Johnnyb]

I have a question about James stuff lower coil spring retainers because it just doesn't look right.
The factory lower retainers have a means to clamp the bottom of the coil spring in place when the whole thing is tightened up.
The James stuff lower coil spring retainers look like the spring simply inserts inside the hoop and doesn't actually get clamped in place.
Is this a problem or a concern for anybody?

Thanks,
JB

 

[broncobuddha]

You're correct. That's how they're designed. I run them with no issues.

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[Shimmy]

lol. did you not look at the product pic before buying? you're good. the cool slides in the hoop. the WH design is the same too.

 

[Johnnyb]

lol. did you not look at the product pic before buying? you're good. the cool slides in the hoop. the WH design is the same too.

Came as part of a kit. I'm still on the fence whether I'll use it or stick with the OEM.

-JB

 

[broncobuddha]

Way easier than OEM.

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[Johnnyb]

Way easier than OEM.

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It's a significantly larger diameter than the coil spring. What about the spring walking around inside of that thing since it's not clamped down?

-JB

 

[Yeller]

It is not an issue. I run them as well. I purchased them due to not having anything OEM and was less expensive than making my own and paying myself to do it (part of my calculation on to buy or make, time vs dollars). I like them and will use them again. just follow the instructions and install them on the correct side in the correct orientation otherwise they do squeak, the spring will rub and pop against the the retainer, ask me how I know LOL

 

[broncobuddha]

It's a significantly larger diameter than the coil spring. What about the spring walking around inside of that thing since it's not clamped down?

-JB

No the spring won't back out of the retainer part at the bottom.

It's clamped at the top still, and given the weight bearing down on it, it's not going anywhere.

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[EPB72]

Came as part of a kit. I'm still on the fence whether I'll use it or stick with the OEM.

-JB

MIGS a member here also makes and sells a similar retainer as what duffs and WH sells but a little more refined.. the duffs springs actually just dit with no slop,

 

[jamesroney]

I have a question about James stuff lower coil spring retainers because it just doesn't look right.
The factory lower retainers have a means to clamp the bottom of the coil spring in place when the whole thing is tightened up.
The James stuff lower coil spring retainers look like the spring simply inserts inside the hoop and doesn't actually get clamped in place.
Is this a problem or a concern for anybody?

Thanks,
JB

The factory coil cup is designed to have a relief formed into the coil base to allow for full support of the last coil "pigtail" as the spring is formed. It is also designed to hold the spring securely to the radius arm.

I would surmise that the design engineer and process engineering team in Operations worked together in a DFM solution that allowed Dana Spicer to provide the axle housing with brakes to a sub-assembly team that would attach the radius arms, bushings, coil cups, track bar, steering linkage and shocks to the axle assembly. The use of a positive retention device to secure the coil springs prior to assembly was probably considered a DFM imperative. Otherwise the springs could fall out and cause delay as well as potential injury. It also provides some level of rotational stability so that the spring cannot spin once it is clamped. This would likely decrease installation time and variability during assembly.

The Duff / WH solution is optimized for coil cup strength. But it provides an inferior spring landing area, and the spring is not secure when the axle assembly is not in frame. The lack of a formed coil bucket will result in unfavorable NVH (Noise, Vibration, Harshness) and increased corrosion potential at the contact line. It will also create a complex non-linearity in the coil spring rate when the spring is partially loaded. I imagine it's largely indeterminate as the load approaches 0. It means nothing from a practical perspective, but it goes against "best practices" in coil spring application engineering. Usually when a coil spring lands on a flat pad, the last coil is wound flat, or the pigtail is machined flat.

So is it a problem or concern for ANYBODY? Yes. Certainly.
Is it a problem for YOU? Nope.

 

[Mark1911]

Good afternoon, I had the exact same coil retainers and did not care for the way the passenger side spring made contact with the forward side of the upper spring mount.
I ditched those for a set of retainers I purchased from a contributor here on classic broncos, look up MIGS, he makes an excellent set of retainers that I am now running.

Mark.

 

[Mark1911]

https://classicbroncos.com/forums/members/migs.34649/
His retainers mimic the factory design, hopefully this helps

Mark

 

[73azbronco]

The factory coil cup is designed to have a relief formed into the coil base to allow for full support of the last coil "pigtail" as the spring is formed. It is also designed to hold the spring securely to the radius arm.

I would surmise that the design engineer and process engineering team in Operations worked together in a DFM solution that allowed Dana Spicer to provide the axle housing with brakes to a sub-assembly team that would attach the radius arms, bushings, coil cups, track bar, steering linkage and shocks to the axle assembly. The use of a positive retention device to secure the coil springs prior to assembly was probably considered a DFM imperative. Otherwise the springs could fall out and cause delay as well as potential injury. It also provides some level of rotational stability so that the spring cannot spin once it is clamped. This would likely decrease installation time and variability during assembly.

The Duff / WH solution is optimized for coil cup strength. But it provides an inferior spring landing area, and the spring is not secure when the axle assembly is not in frame. The lack of a formed coil bucket will result in unfavorable NVH (Noise, Vibration, Harshness) and increased corrosion potential at the contact line. It will also create a complex non-linearity in the coil spring rate when the spring is partially loaded. I imagine it's largely indeterminate as the load approaches 0. It means nothing from a practical perspective, but it goes against "best practices" in coil spring application engineering. Usually when a coil spring lands on a flat pad, the last coil is wound flat, or the pigtail is machined flat.

So is it a problem or concern for ANYBODY? Yes. Certainly.
Is it a problem for YOU? Nope.

This, is why I ditched them and keep using stock. Form follows function, and they just don't look good. To me, but if you like them, great for you.

 

[Johnnyb]

This, is why I ditched them and keep using stock. Form follows function, and they just don't look good. To me, but if you like them, great for you.

I finished up today and ended up using the stock retainers as well. I have a James Duff track bar riser, which is in and of itself a little bit problematic (it's too tall and non-adjustable), and discovered that their lower spring retainers would not fit due to the track bar riser.
The lower retainers were the usual p i t a, but why don't we thread studs into the track bar and C-cap to make attachment and removal of the spring retainers so much easier?

-JB

 

[DirtDonk]

Seems like studs, or bolts, you still have to get a wrench in there to tighten.
Although I’ve often thought about studs as well, I’ve never done it.
But do you tighten it down all at once? Or do you partially tighten them, insert the spring like a screw, then tighten them the rest of the way?
If you get them threaded almost to clamping force, you can still rotate the spring under the clamp, then tighten the fasteners in the end.
Works much more quickly that way, without having to constantly rotate the wrench or ratchet. Just a couple of partial turns and you’re done.

 

[catfan]

I can understand the cutting of corners as that is a tough part reproduce.

 

[Johnnyb]

Seems like studs, or bolts, you still have to get a wrench in there to tighten.
Although I’ve often thought about studs as well, I’ve never done it.
But do you tighten it down all at once? Or do you partially tighten them, insert the spring like a screw, then tighten them the rest of the way?
If you get them threaded almost to clamping force, you can still rotate the spring under the clamp, then tighten the fasteners in the end.
Works much more quickly that way, without having to constantly rotate the wrench or ratchet. Just a couple of partial turns and you’re done.

I think with studs, you could use a ratchet-strap (or two) to compress the spring enough to put the whole thing on (with lower retainer) and drop it on to the studs.

Either way, an offset wrench helps with tightening.

-JB

 

[DirtDonk]

Interestingly enough, this all leads to one of the design aspects of the spring retainer in question.
Just bolt the cup fully tight to the radius arm. No need for fancy wrenches or using extra brainstorming.
Install the coil into the retainer and raise the axle to clamp the upper pigtail coil to the tower. Done…

Using the factory two piece setup, with studs or bolts, tighten it almost down, then insert the spring. Raise the axle to clamp the upper, then lower it down to stretch the spring.
Hanging the weight of the axle on the coil stretches the coil gaps/voids, making it easier to get a wrench in on the bottom fasteners. A standard 3/8 drive ratchet works great for this.