Jeep guy needs help from Bronco guys

[commadore64]

Hi everyone, this is my first post on Classicbroncos. I'll come clean right from the start... I do not own a classic Bronco... I own a 1980 Jeep CJ-5 . Now, before all the hate replys, let me start my defense by saying I have owned two Broncos in the past... both full size, a 1988 and a 1990... great trucks, loved them both.

But more to the point as to why I am here. I am doing a resto-mod on my Jeep. I am installing a 351W and T-18 transmission in it, kinda a Ford in Jeeps clothing. I am about ready to set the engine and transmission (and transfer case) in the frame but need some parts for the transmission, specifically release lever, throw-out bearing, dust boot, inspection sheild, etc. My question to you guys, who among the early (or late) model Bronco vendors would be the best place to get everything I need for my transmission/clutch install? I need someone I can call and talk to that would be very knowlegeable about my setup. Any advice would be great... and thanks for taking the time to reply to a Jeep guy. (BTW, I really do like Classic Broncos too!)

 

[BRONCO_POWER]

You can call any vendor on the top of this web page, and they will answer any question you have. It still sucks that you don't own a Bronco ;D

 

[BroncKrawler]

Like bronco_power said, any of the Vendors on the top of the page, Wild Horses, Toms Bronco Parts, BC Broncos, James Duff, etc. should all be helpful to you. I use Tom's mostly because they are close to where I live, but I've ordered parts from all of the vendors and never had a problem. Nothing wrong with Jeeps either! Good luck with your engine swap!

 

[Pedestrian]

No problem on the Jeep thing, I have owned one and made enough money on it when it sold to fund more Bronco parts ;D
As stated, any of the vendors at the top of the page should be able to help you out. I would personally try Jeffs Bronco graveyard, or Tom's Bronco parts.

 

[Nightstick]

Give Wild Horses a call tomorrow morning and ask for Paul B (aka DirtDonk). That guy is smart!!!

 

[Scoop]

Yeah, Paul at WH is very knowledgeable. You might also try Bryan at Duff's. He owns a "Bronco in jeep's clothing" too. Not sure what engine he's running but his suspension is all Duff's Bronco parts.

BTW, here's what happens to jeeps who show up at Bronco events.

 

[70_Steve]

My question to you guys, who among the early (or late) model Bronco vendors would be the best place to get everything I need for my transmission/clutch install? I need someone I can call and talk to that would be very knowlegeable about my setup. Any advice would be great... and thanks for taking the time to reply to a Jeep guy. (BTW, I really do like Classic Broncos too!)

Congrats on a step in the right direction (Ford drive train). Ask a few questions here and you'll get all the answers you need. There's nothing magic about this stuff. Plus, post up in the Parts Wanted section and I'm sure you'll find the parts you need.

There is no inspection sheild, like for an automatic tranny. There is a block plate which covers the entire rear of the block. I've got a clutch release lever and throwout bearing. I believe the throwout bearing is in good shape as it did come out of a running Bronco. PM me and I'll make you a deal on it. Might also have a dust boot. Have to take a look.

Sounds like a good project!

 

[DirtDonk]

Hay commando. Welcome!
Sounds like a fun project. You should like the low-end torque of a good running (and not over-cammed or over-carbed of course) 351 engine in there.

What's the original application for the engine? For the trans? What about the bell-housing?
Have you changed anything in the engine, such as the cam?
That info will help you, and any parts people you try to use, in tracking down the right parts the first time.
Unfortunately, Ford has used different parts through the years and models, so even though it might turn out to be super easy to get what you need, you can also run into roadblocks along the way. Even with seemingly simple parts.

Ford used at least 3 different styles of release forks, 2 pivot methods, and who knows how many throwout bearings over the years. Sure, plenty of them cross over, but you still have to do some digging sometimes, to find something that will fit with a mish-mash of parts.

What transfer case are you using? Presumably early Jeep, Dodge or Chevy? If Ford, or later model vehicle, have you changed out the front diff to a driver's side pumpkin?
I figure you've already got that done or at least mapped out, but thought I'd bring it up anyway, and am just curious what transfer case you're using anyway.

So, some of the parts you have already, or will need, are:

1. Full engine plate.
2. Pilot bearing/bushing (sized to fit the crank AND the transmission input snout)
3. Windsor bell-housing. (did you get the one with the engine?)
3a. Depending on the original application of the bell-housing, it might be sized for the smaller or larger flywheel. Preferrably you can use the larger one from a truck, as it's got more clamping force and ability to take the heat.
4. Flywheel (needs to be 28 oz imbalance factor for all years of 351W)
4a. Depending on bell-housing, either 157 or 164 tooth ring-gear for proper starter engagement. The larger tooth count is the desirable larger flywheel for a bigger clutch. I think they're considered an "11 inch" setup.
5. Appropriate pressure plate. 11" diameter and right bolt pattern for flywheel.
6. Proper clutch disc for spline count of transmission and diameter or pressure plate and flywheel. (11" hopefully)
7. Throwout/release bearing for the transmission and fork.
8. The correct boot for both the bell-housing and fork profile (obviously)
9. Starter motor from a manual transmission application only.

I know you already had those parts expected, but wanted to put in some details about them that you might not have been aware of.
If, for instance, the engine and bellhousing were sourced from a vintage Mustang, they might have the smaller flywheel and clutch size. If so, that might not fit the larger one without some grinding.
If they came out of a truck, then you're probably good to go.
If they came out of a late enough model truck, the fork design might have changed. I'm not sure, but there might even have been some hydraulic actuating mechanisms towards the end. If so, that might be a game-changer as to what linkage you use.
If the trans is out of a Ford, you're good there. But if it's out of a Jeep or IH, you might need to verify the shaft size before choosing a clutch disc.

Sorry for throwing so much out there up front, before even finding out what you have. Just wanted to air out a few potential questions before you started calling around.
With any luck, some more people will chime in here with direct knowledge of the stuff you're working with.
Once you let us know what they all came out of first.

Especially since I could have some of my facts wrong too!
Good luck.

Paul

 

[DirtDonk]

OH, and I forgot the pedal mechanism. What Jeep model is this? A Commando by any chance? That'd be über cool for sure!
But you might have to get really creative with the linkage.
The early engines will have a threaded hole drilled in a pad adjacent to the bell-housing that the later engines might not have had. If it's got the hole, you can utilize mostly Early Bronco linkage (crossbars and brackets), but if your particular Jeep is already equipped with some of that, you might be able to mix-and-match.
If a CJ, what year? Cable clutch? Transfer bar type? Hydraulic?

Just more questions. I'm sure there'll be more still.

Paul

 

[gr8scott]

I own a 1980 Jeep CJ-5

From his initial post...

 

[DirtDonk]

Hah! Thanks.
Funny, but I thought I'd read that, so before I posted my reply, I went back to re-read it. I just glossed over it though, as I totally missed it the next time (only saw the Bronco years) and thought I'd been hallucinating.

Hmm, maybe I am now, you really didn't say that, and I'm talking to myself...

Paul

 

[DirtDonk]

In the case of an '80 CJ though, weren't they still experiencing clutch-pull while flexing up off road commandore64? If so, the added torque of the big V8 might just make it worse still.
Under those circumstances, a hydraulic, or at least cable-operated clutch might be the ticket.

If that wasn't an issue by then, no problem. But we used to sell a lot of cable and chain kits for the CJ's back in the '80's. Advance Adapters used to have an interesting gear-and-chain arrangement that looked like it was off of a bicycle.
Funky sounding, but it worked. And best of all, no more disengaged clutches or wedged throttles at the most inopportune moments!

Paul

 

[gr8scott]

Hah! Thanks.
Funny, but I thought I'd read that, so before I posted my reply, I went back to re-read it. I just glossed over it though, as I totally missed it the next time (only saw the Bronco years) and thought I'd been hallucinating.

Hmm, maybe I am now, you really didn't say that, and I'm talking to myself...

Paul

Yeah, we just expect a little more from Obi-Donk-Kenobi. May The Force be with you!;D

 

[Buldozer]

If you have a nice ford drive train, why not sell the heep and just buy a rolling bronco tub to put it in? That route will probably save you time and money in the long run....

 

[Nightstick]

give wild horses a call tomorrow morning and ask for paul b (aka dirtdonk). That guy is smart!!!

hay commando. Welcome!
Sounds like a fun project. You should like the low-end torque of a good running (and not over-cammed or over-carbed of course) 351 engine in there.

What's the original application for the engine? For the trans? What about the bell-housing?
Have you changed anything in the engine, such as the cam?
That info will help you, and any parts people you try to use, in tracking down the right parts the first time.
Unfortunately, ford has used different parts through the years and models, so even though it might turn out to be super easy to get what you need, you can also run into roadblocks along the way. Even with seemingly simple parts.

Ford used at least 3 different styles of release forks, 2 pivot methods, and who knows how many throwout bearings over the years. Sure, plenty of them cross over, but you still have to do some digging sometimes, to find something that will fit with a mish-mash of parts.

What transfer case are you using? Presumably early jeep, dodge or chevy? If ford, or later model vehicle, have you changed out the front diff to a driver's side pumpkin?
I figure you've already got that done or at least mapped out, but thought i'd bring it up anyway, and am just curious what transfer case you're using anyway.

So, some of the parts you have already, or will need, are:

1. Full engine plate.
2. Pilot bearing/bushing (sized to fit the crank and the transmission input snout)
3. Windsor bell-housing. (did you get the one with the engine?)
3a. Depending on the original application of the bell-housing, it might be sized for the smaller or larger flywheel. Preferrably you can use the larger one from a truck, as it's got more clamping force and ability to take the heat.
4. Flywheel (needs to be 28 oz imbalance factor for all years of 351w)
4a. Depending on bell-housing, either 157 or 164 tooth ring-gear for proper starter engagement. The larger tooth count is the desirable larger flywheel for a bigger clutch. I think they're considered an "11 inch" setup.
5. Appropriate pressure plate. 11" diameter and right bolt pattern for flywheel.
6. Proper clutch disc for spline count of transmission and diameter or pressure plate and flywheel. (11" hopefully)
7. Throwout/release bearing for the transmission and fork.
8. The correct boot for both the bell-housing and fork profile (obviously)
9. Starter motor from a manual transmission application only.

I know you already had those parts expected, but wanted to put in some details about them that you might not have been aware of.
If, for instance, the engine and bellhousing were sourced from a vintage mustang, they might have the smaller flywheel and clutch size. If so, that might not fit the larger one without some grinding.
If they came out of a truck, then you're probably good to go.
If they came out of a late enough model truck, the fork design might have changed. I'm not sure, but there might even have been some hydraulic actuating mechanisms towards the end. If so, that might be a game-changer as to what linkage you use.
If the trans is out of a ford, you're good there. But if it's out of a jeep or ih, you might need to verify the shaft size before choosing a clutch disc.

Sorry for throwing so much out there up front, before even finding out what you have. Just wanted to air out a few potential questions before you started calling around.
With any luck, some more people will chime in here with direct knowledge of the stuff you're working with.
Once you let us know what they all came out of first.

Especially since i could have some of my facts wrong too!
Good luck.

Paul

case closed!!!!

 

[commadore64]

Wow guys, thanks for all the feedback...

Some of you indicated you need more detail on my build...
1.The engine is out of a 1974 Galaxie 500. Stripped to a bare block, bored 0.030” over, ground crank 0.010” under, rebuild stock heads and everything else new including mild Comp cam, gear drive instead of timing chain, gapless piston rings and other top quality parts.
2.I don’t know the origin of the T-18… it is a Ford unit and I have rebuilt it and installed the proper output shaft for my t-case with parts from Novak.
3.I don’t know the origin of the bell-housing either. It is a cast iron unit but came with no parts. (That’s where I need to discuss it with someone knowledgeable to help me figure out which release lever I need, etc.)
4.I have a new flywheel from Jegs. 164 tooth, 28 oz. My plan is to use an 11” clutch. I have a small gift certificate for Jegs, so I will be going back there for the clutch and pressure plate.
5.I already have a Powermaster 9604 mini starter.
6.As far as the clutch actuation, my Jeep came originally with the 151c.i. Iron Duke 4-cyl engine which came with a hydraulic slave cylinder clutch actuation setup. My plan is to see if I can fab something up to use that setup. Will have to wait until I have everything on the frame to see if that is going to work.
7.Oh, almost forgot, my t-case is a Dana 300 short tail shaft model.

Oh, and to Buldozer… about “saving money”… even you Bronco guys know that this kinda work is not about saving money. HaHa

Again, thanks to everyone for their input. I will contact some of the vendors on the site. In the mean time, feel free to offer more advice if you think of anything else.

 

[jduffent]

Sounds like a nice set up, give me a shout if you need to at Duffs! Oh, trust me, don't take it to a Bronco Event cause the TP is really hard to remove! LoL......
Bryan.....

 

[commadore64]

OK, update... Called Wild Horses and talked to Dave (Paul was not in). He helped me pick out everything I need and was even so kind as to take my credit card number. ;D Thanks to everyone for there input into my Jeep project. I'm sure I'll be back later with some questions on cooling, wiring, fuel issues and such as I progress further into this project.

 

[commadore64]

Sounds like a nice set up, give me a shout if you need to at Duffs! Oh, trust me, don't take it to a Bronco Event cause the TP is really hard to remove! LoL......
Bryan.....

Thanks Bryan, just got off the phone with WH, but I'm not through yet... I'm sure I'll need more parts... I've got your number.