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Melting Wires

Blue1969

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Jul 9, 2021
Messages
43
I’ve recently completed some work on my 69 U14; new timing chain, water pump, alternator, rebuilt carb. First real road test, running really good at idle and mild acceleration for about 4 miles. Then at about 45 mph, I accelerated fairly hard and the truck bucked hard, I let off and drove another 1/2 mile and accelerated hard again, and another serious buck. Smoke started coming in the cab. I pulled over and got the fire extinguisher and opened the hood. The main engine wiring harness was hot and the insulation melted. I disconnected the ground on the battery and let things cool down again. Hooked it back up again and drove it 4 miles back home. So, now I need some help diagnosing the cause. Voltage regulator, alternator, possible short, I’m not sure where to start? Then, how do I replace the melted wires? Thanks!
 

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HoldMyPocket

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Was the alternator you installed stock or a 3g alternator? I would double-check those connections..
 
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Blue1969

Blue1969

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Was the alternator you installed stock or a 3g alternator? I would double-check those connections..
It was stock. After looking closer today, the ground to the block had melted insulation too. There was a wire under the dash melted too. How do you replace single wires like this in a harness?
 

DirtDonk

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Nov 3, 2003
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48,489
Are you sure the one in your first pic is a wire? Looks like the heater temperature control cable from here.
If that’s the case then that indicates a bad ground in the electricity was flowing through the cable instead, looking for a pathway.

I think I see the negative battery cable in your picture (The curved one that goes just out of sight?), but I do not see a body ground.
If that’s the case then you need to add one.

Was the ground down on the engine clean and tight? Normally I believe a melted negative cable means either there was a serious overload, a short to nearby metal, or the connection was not sufficient for the normal load. Which is to say the starter.

When it was running did you check the battery voltage by any chance? Or did you read your meter in the dash? Speaking of which, do you have a voltmeter or the original ammeter still?
Either way, what were they indicating?
 
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Blue1969

Blue1969

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Jul 9, 2021
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Are you sure the one in your first pic is a wire? Looks like the heater temperature control cable from here.
If that’s the case then that indicates a bad ground in the electricity was flowing through the cable instead, looking for a pathway.

I think I see the negative battery cable in your picture (The curved one that goes just out of sight?), but I do not see a body ground.
If that’s the case then you need to add one.

Was the ground down on the engine clean and tight? Normally I believe a melted negative cable means either there was a serious overload, a short to nearby metal, or the connection was not sufficient for the normal load. Which is to say the starter.

When it was running did you check the battery voltage by any chance? Or did you read your meter in the dash? Speaking of which, do you have a voltmeter or the original ammeter still?
Either way, what were they indicating?
 
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Blue1969

Blue1969

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It’s definitely wire, I believe its the main 12 gauge charging wire. I don’t think I have a body ground. I will try to get better pictures tomorrow. The ground going to the block was melted, as was a the wire under the dash. Not sure if it was tight or clean, I haven’t messed with it since I’ve had the truck. I will check that tomorrow too. I checked the battery voltage before the trip is it was 13.7 if I remember correctly. I still have the original ammeter and it was pegged before I could get it stopped from the smoke. I have no idea how to sort this out. Is there a way to change single wires in a harness like this?
 

71 CA Bronco

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Nov 25, 2015
Messages
764
I bet you pinched a wire somewhere causing a direct short, or crossed a wire that was intended to be a ground to hot. I would follow every wire near where you replaced stuff. Once you find your cause I think you would be better off replacing at least the entire circuit the short occurred otherwise you might be chasing gremlins for a long long time.

Oh and check your fuses. A blown fuse should indicate what circuit your issue is coming from narrowing down your troubles. Good l;uck.
 

thegreatjustino

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Are you sure the one in your first pic is a wire? Looks like the heater temperature control cable from here.
Paul, look above the cable. By the plastic connector holding the wiring to the firewall. You can see the insulation melted off. I saw the heater cable first too.
 

DirtDonk

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Yes you can replace just single wires. How hard or easy it is will depend on the individual wires, where they melted, and if that melting affected any adjacent wires.
If the melted wire inside the cabin is the same main charge cable (10ga Black sometimes w/yellow stripe) it typically travels next to many wires and may have taken some others out with it.
You might get lucky and just have had damage where it's separated from the rest of the harness, but you might also have to dig into some harness tape to make sure.

Depending on where the damage is, you may be able to simply cut and splice new wire in place of the damaged section, but my experiences with this particular wire melting usually merits replacing the entire wire. The lucky ones only have to deal with that wire alone, while most will find damaged smaller wires where they run too close to that one.

In fact, it's so common when that wire is in trouble, that i would not even bother with sections. Just retire it completely and create your own brand new one from scratch.
Get a picture of the battery side of the starter relay/solenoid too please. There is a fusible link there on the end of the same Black wire that should have blown long before any of this damage occurred. I'm wondering if it's been replaced with just a regular connector. This is just the catastrophe that the link is designed to avoid.

If it was just this wire, one possibility would be that your alternator (or more likely the regulator) failed and caused the alternator to put out it's maximum capacity. Usually with stock alternators there is plenty of headroom on the wire to avoid a meltdown, but it's hard to say it would never happen.
But because your main battery ground also melted, this was not caused by a fault in the alternator other than a dead short to ground through the alternator case.

I have a feeling you're going to be doing a lot of digging and scratching and hunting down possible culprits. As well as possible damaged wires.
Yours is the second Bronco I've seen (the other was a '69 too) with that main charge wire in it's own firewall pass-through. Maybe there are other years, but most pass through the two rectangular firewall connectors. The first one I saw with a total meltdown was also a '69, but in that case both branches of that wire passed through one each of the rectangular connectors. No separation from the other wires.
(edit: oops, I see what you all are talking about now. Thanks Justin, made me take a third and fourth look before I finally saw the loom at the top of the pic!)

Maybe you'll be one of the lucky ones with no collateral damage.

Paul
 

DirtDonk

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I edited my last post with a comment about the separate wire. I see the damaged loom now. So like said, you will at the very least be removing all the harness tape to be sure that no other wires were harmed in the making of this overload. It's not the end of the world to remove all the tape. Just makes you feel like you're ruining some originality if you feel that way (like I do with some things) but in the long run it can be a good thing. Especially now that you know for a fact that there is a fault somewhere in the system. Removing the tape lets you see the entire setup.

Oh, and speaking of those pesky firewall connectors, if you have never done it, be sure to take them apart and inspect for rust/corrosion and loose fitting contacts. Not to mention telltale signs of overheating.
I have a feeling that the points that the Black wire passes through may also be damaged.

Once we know more about the extent of the damage we can give a little more precise advise about replacing individual wires. Most of them are not under high load, so a simple (but high quality of course) splice-n-dice job can get the job done satisfactorily. But that Black wire does too many things to be fiddled with lightly. Gotta' have a plan of attack for that one.

Looking forward to more pics.

Paul
 
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Blue1969

Blue1969

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Jul 9, 2021
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I bet you pinched a wire somewhere causing a direct short, or crossed a wire that was intended to be a ground to hot. I would follow every wire near where you replaced stuff. Once you find your cause I think you would be better off replacing at least the entire circuit the short occurred otherwise you might be chasing gremlins for a long long time.

Oh and check your fuses. A blown fuse should indicate what circuit your issue is coming from narrowing down your troubles. Good l;uck.
Thanks! No blown fuses. I did move the voltage regulator out of the way to do some inner fender painting, but didn't undo any connections there, other than the ground. What do you mean by replacing the entire circuit, the wire from beginning to end, or does this include all components associated with the wire?
 
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Blue1969

Blue1969

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Yes you can replace just single wires. How hard or easy it is will depend on the individual wires, where they melted, and if that melting affected any adjacent wires.
If the melted wire inside the cabin is the same main charge cable (10ga Black sometimes w/yellow stripe) it typically travels next to many wires and may have taken some others out with it.
I'll try to get a picture of the damaged wire under the dash too. What's the best way to access the under dash wiring, remove gauge cluster/speedometer?

You might get lucky and just have had damage where it's separated from the rest of the harness, but you might also have to dig into some harness tape to make sure.

Depending on where the damage is, you may be able to simply cut and splice new wire in place of the damaged section, but my experiences with this particular wire melting usually merits replacing the entire wire. The lucky ones only have to deal with that wire alone, while most will find damaged smaller wires where they run too close to that one.


In fact, it's so common when that wire is in trouble, that i would not even bother with sections. Just retire it completely and create your own brand new one from scratch.
Get a picture of the battery side of the starter relay/solenoid too please. There is a fusible link there on the end of the same Black wire that should have blown long before any of this damage occurred. I'm wondering if it's been replaced with just a regular connector. This is just the catastrophe that the link is designed to avoid.
The entire length of wiring was smoking, so I don't think a splice will be an option.


If it was just this wire, one possibility would be that your alternator (or more likely the regulator) failed and caused the alternator to put out it's maximum capacity. Usually with stock alternators there is plenty of headroom on the wire to avoid a meltdown, but it's hard to say it would never happen.
But because your main battery ground also melted, this was not caused by a fault in the alternator other than a dead short to ground through the alternator case.
My main battery ground didn't melt, the engine ground to the alternator had the melted insulation. I didn't remove the ground from the engine when I replaced the alternator, just the connection at the alternator.

I have a feeling you're going to be doing a lot of digging and scratching and hunting down possible culprits. As well as possible damaged wires.
Yours is the second Bronco I've seen (the other was a '69 too) with that main charge wire in it's own firewall pass-through. Maybe there are other years, but most pass through the two rectangular firewall connectors. The first one I saw with a total meltdown was also a '69, but in that case both branches of that wire passed through one each of the rectangular connectors.
I have the rectangular connectors at the firewall. I'll get a picture of that also. Are these connectors reusable? If not, how do you go about replacing them?


Maybe you'll be one of the lucky ones with no collateral damage.

Paul
 

BanditBronco

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Jul 2, 2008
Messages
690
Check and make sure the insulation isn't rubbed off under the foam insulator on the charge wire where it comes through the dash. That would be the wire that sees the most current. I would definitely check a few voltages while its running and see what you come up with. Running it in the drive way might give you a hint to the issue as well, just keep a fire extinguisher handy.
 
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Blue1969

Blue1969

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Check and make sure the insulation isn't rubbed off under the foam insulator on the charge wire where it comes through the dash. That would be the wire that sees the most current. I would definitely check a few voltages while its running and see what you come up with. Running it in the drive way might give you a hint to the issue as well, just keep a fire extinguisher handy.
Where should I check the voltages at other than the battery?
 

71 CA Bronco

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Nov 25, 2015
Messages
764
Go to the Wild Horses site (shameless plug for you Paul) look up Painless Wire Harness and download the installation instructions. They are very good and you can trace down each wire circuit to the fuse box. What I meant is I would just replace each damaged wire all the way to the fuse box. If its significant damage, or you already have the dash pulled apart, might be a good time to just bite the bullet and replace the entire harness. My 2 cents worth. I also tried to attach the Painless instructions to this post.

 
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Blue1969

Blue1969

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I edited my last post with a comment about the separate wire. I see the damaged loom now. So like said, you will at the very least be removing all the harness tape to be sure that no other wires were harmed in the making of this overload. It's not the end of the world to remove all the tape. Just makes you feel like you're ruining some originality if you feel that way (like I do with some things) but in the long run it can be a good thing. Especially now that you know for a fact that there is a fault somewhere in the system. Removing the tape lets you see the entire setup.

Oh, and speaking of those pesky firewall connectors, if you have never done it, be sure to take them apart and inspect for rust/corrosion and loose fitting contacts. Not to mention telltale signs of overheating.
I have a feeling that the points that the Black wire passes through may also be damaged.

Once we know more about the extent of the damage we can give a little more precise advise about replacing individual wires. Most of them are not under high load, so a simple (but high quality of course) splice-n-dice job can get the job done satisfactorily. But that Black wire does too many things to be fiddled with lightly. Gotta' have a plan of attack for that one.

Looking forward to more pics.

Paul
Melted ground to engine.jpg
This melted wire is under the bolt that attaches the solenoid to the inner fender circled in the next pic.
Solenoid where melted wire was mounted.jpg

Rectangular connectors at firewall.jpg
The rectangular connectors at the firewall.
Voltage regulator.jpg
Under dash wire.jpg Underdash 2.jpg
Under dash wire

Before I start taking things apart to look closer, where should I check voltages with it running?

I appreciate everyone's help!
 

71 CA Bronco

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Nov 25, 2015
Messages
764
I would not run it at all. Not until you trace out that wiring. You will just burn up more stuff.

It looks like one end of that wire hooked to the block and the other hooked to the starter relay terminal? If so you created a direct short connecting a positive (+) to ground (-). That would do it. Can you post a better picture of the other end of the fried ground wire?

One side of the relay should go to the battery. The other goes to the positive starter terminal. Take a look at the attached.
 

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DirtDonk

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No blown fuses.
That's actually a good sign so far, but the main damaged wire does not go to or through a fuse, so the only thing able to protect it is the fusible link previously mentioned.

I did move the voltage regulator out of the way to do some inner fender painting, but didn't undo any connections there, other than the ground. What do you mean by replacing the entire circuit, the wire from beginning to end, or does this include all components associated with the wire?
That's a problem.
You should never have your voltage regulator connected when it's un-grounded while the battery is still connected. You can fry your regulator, and then that can cause an over-charge situation. Which may be what started the cascade effect of smoking wire.

Yes, replacing the wire from one end to the other. But this is not a simple task because it has splices and connections to other circuits built in at the factory. It's not just a simple loop, but it can still be done. Just takes more work.
With replacing in mind, you can look for any sections that are not damaged (if such exist) and keep those and splice in new wire where it's needed.
This is not really recommended though, if you keep it working in the same fashion as the factory did it. This would only be advisable I think if you change the loop to a single wire that powers up the vehicle, disconnecting the alternator from the loop and running a new wire directly from the alternator to the battery positive. No more ammeter function, but that can be replaced by a voltmeter instead and you avoid the future potential issues of running all of your power through one wire with multiple splices.
The only way I'd keep it functioning as an ammeter wire is if you replace the entire run with new 10ga wire, and use junction blocks to feed the other circuits instead of splices. Unless you're an expert at wiring and can do perfect splices, the single wire scenario with junction blocks OR the split function scenario where you wire the alternator directly to the battery would be the way to go.

I'll try to get a picture of the damaged wire under the dash too. What's the best way to access the under dash wiring, remove gauge cluster/speedometer?
There's probably only one "best" way I suppose. That's removing the entire dash to work behind it.
However since your '69 has those two firewall connectors you can probably get away with removing the cluster only for access to the key points of the harness.
Removing the driver's air vent is a good thing too, since for just a few screws and cutting through some old gasket and goop, you get even better access. I'd do that first in fact, and you can then see the back of the cluster even while it's still mounted to the dash.

The entire length of wiring was smoking, so I don't think a splice will be an option.
I'd have to agree...

My main battery ground didn't melt, the engine ground to the alternator had the melted insulation. I didn't remove the ground from the engine when I replaced the alternator, just the connection at the alternator.
I'll look at the new pics closer, but there is normally not a ground wire between the alternator and engine. That is done through the physical contact between the two.
The melted wire might be the same Black wire that burned up throughout the harness.

I have the rectangular connectors at the firewall. I'll get a picture of that also. Are these connectors reusable? If not, how do you go about replacing them?

They are serviceable to a point, but if damaged I don't believe they are reusable or fixable. But inspection will tell you the tale. If they are, it won't be an easy task I'm thinking.

Paul
 

DirtDonk

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Like it or not, you're now a candidate for an entire harness change-out. There's certainly enough damage to justify it.

You can certainly continue to inspect it and remove tape to see what is buried, but it looks like enough damage was done to come back and bite you later on if you just replace that one wire.

And as mentioned, are you sure that's not the wire that is grounded to the engine? What wires are connected to the alternator? what color and what location?

Paul
 
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Blue1969

Blue1969

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Like it or not, you're now a candidate for an entire harness change-out. There's certainly enough damage to justify it.
I hope not. What about an auto electric shop? Is this a repair they could possibly make?

You can certainly continue to inspect it and remove tape to see what is buried, but it looks like enough damage was done to come back and bite you later on if you just replace that one wire.

And as mentioned, are you sure that's not the wire that is grounded to the engine? What wires are connected to the alternator? what color and what location?
l’ll take the alternator off and get a closer look. It very well, could be the wire in the harness, but why would a ground from the engine run all the way to the dash?

Paul
 
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