Mounting points for Duff Tourque Tamer

[JWMcCrary]

I bent mine pretty good at OCBR, this is the 2nd time it's happened since I added lower gearing and it get's into the driveshaft at the yoke on the back of the Tcase. Seems like it's angled in at the shackle end which is causing it to twist. I'm debating moving the mounting tabs on the torque tamer crossmember a few inches towards the drivers side frame rail and see if that helps. Curious if others have had this problem.

 

[Monster Mike]

I bent mine pretty good at OCBR, this is the 2nd time it's happened since I added lower gearing and it get's into the driveshaft at the yoke on the back of the Tcase. Seems like it's angled in at the shackle end which is causing it to twist. I'm debating moving the mounting tabs on the torque tamer crossmember a few inches towards the drivers side frame rail and see if that helps. Curious if others have had this problem.

Man i was there, I wish i could of saw this up close!!

any chance you can strap a go pro or camera phone under there and show us some live footage?

What drivetrain are you running? how long have you owned this torque tamer?

 

[JWMcCrary]

Don't have current pics but I think all that's bent is the heim on the bottom at the rear and the bottom mounting tab. It's bent over flush with the 9 inch carrier. I've been running the torque tamer since 2007ish and it works so I want to keep it on there. In 2013 I added a cold duck doubler which pushed the D20 back the thickness of another D20 plus a couple inches. I had to move the Tamer crossmember father back and shorten the shackle end of the Tamer bar.

The pics attached are from when I modified it in 2013, shortened the end to move it back. Still does the job but this is the 2nd time it's twisted it enough to get the shackle into the driveshaft, although this time the bar itself doesn't appear bent or twisted. I think if I move the mounting point on the crossmember and inch or 2 towards the drivers side it might solve it. Thoughts?

 

[JWMcCrary]

OK, it was 2007 (this pic is dated april 2007) when I installed it but a lot has changed since then (as stated above). The pic attached is fully flexed at that time and you can see how close it is to the driveshaft. I was told then not to worry about it. Bronco flexes a lot more now. I still think moving the mounting point on the crossmember would fix it, provided that doesn't screw up the overall movement of it when flexing???. I'm shocked to think I'm the only one who has run into this???

 

[SpareParts]

Pics don't show everything, but from the way it looks you should be able to move it over without issue. There's heims top and bottom of the axle side correct? They will take the misalignment if you push it over an inch or two.

 

[JWMcCrary]

Pics don't show everything, but from the way it looks you should be able to move it over without issue. There's heims top and bottom of the axle side correct? They will take the misalignment if you push it over an inch or two.

There is only one heim and it's at the bottom on the rear. The top rear is a bushing and the shackle end is a bushing. Maybe I should switch the bushings to heims while I'm working on it ????

 

[Yeller]

If you do change to a hiem only do the end at the axle, on the shackle end you will bend the hiem. Also use at least a 7/8" hiem. It's unbelievable the torque load on the bar. I've seen them cause the frame to bow in the middle with hard use at the crossmember. I've destroyed torque bars in about every way imaginable.....

But even with a bushing you should still be able to move that over enough to clear up the issue. But did I read right that you bent the lower hiem over into the 3rd? If so that could be looked at as well.

I'm going to say something that I hope that the Duffs don't find offensive, it's meant to be helpful. In the last 10 years we've advanced with technology and what worked great then has weakness today. So designs that were more than adiquate in the past are not today. So they must be modified to stand up to the abuse we put on them today. And I'm more than happy to help anyway I can.

 

[Broncobowsher]

I recall seeing that Duff now offers a HD version.

 

[tacobronco]

Yeller - why do you say only use heims at the axle end? All the other designs I've seen use a heim at the front (shackle) end to accommodate axle flex, and bushings on the axle end. In fact, I've never understood why Duff's put a heim on only the lower connection at the axle - with a bushing at the upper axle end, the heim at the lower is gaining you nothing. You effectively have bushings at both ends, which limits flex. Two bushings at the rear and a heim at the front would allow more flex.

 

[JWMcCrary]

Yeller - why do you say only use heims at the axle end? All the other designs I've seen use a heim at the front (shackle) end to accommodate axle flex, and bushings on the axle end. In fact, I've never understood why Duff's put a heim on only the lower connection at the axle - with a bushing at the upper axle end, the heim at the lower is gaining you nothing. You effectively have bushings at both ends, which limits flex. Two bushings at the rear and a heim at the front would allow more flex.

I'm curious as well. I think the heim on Duffs is so you can adjust it by screwing the heim in or out to line it up on install. Like you said I don't think it does anything for flex.

 

[Yeller]

The hiem is there to be able to adjust it so it fits, especially over time you can take it out for maintenance or repairs. I prefer a Johnny Joint at the shackle end but a single bushing on a shackle isn't going to limit your flex that much, probably not even enough to notice. Part of the issue with a hiem on the shackle end is it needs to be large, 1" or larger to not bend, they are not designed to be loaded in that direction. IMO the hiems on the axle end need to be high strength 7/8" minimum and the brackets need to be 1/4" and be wrapped 1/2 way around the tube with gussets, the stock 9" housing actually gives up next. Also remember hiems make noise bushings and Johnny joints don't.

Does that help? If not we can hash about it until it does.

 

[Monster Mike]

Good stuff! love the product feed back and yes i agree with Yeller ALOT has changed since we first designed the Torque Tamer. In the last year we have made the TT much stronger. here is a link that goes over the changes we have made and the new options we offer. http://classicbroncos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=269636

Regarding JW im not sure why his shackle is so close to the drive line. How far away is it when its not flexing? Here is a pic of ours on the display chassis. Disregard the bolts going through the Torque tamer shackle. They are too long and getting swapped out this week.



When you say it flexes alot more, is it alot more than the travel you get out of long arms and a good set of leaf springs?

We did some testing a year back on Silver to see how the Bronco articulated with and w/o the Torque Tamer. I know some people look at our design and think the heim should be at the shackle end of the bar and the bushings will limit flex but what we found was actually the exact opposite!

We actually gained travel with the Torque Tamer installed. From what we could tell, the bar actually kept the rear wheel on the ground longer. it was a minimal gain but still very cool! We prefer the use of bushings over heims because they are far less noisy. The bushings hold up pretty well too. not a lot of people call for a replacement set and we have been selling these bars for over 10 years now.

here is how the articulation looks with the bar installed.

 

[tacobronco]

Yeller and Monster Mike - Thanks, that helps! Anyone have pics of the bar itself while flexing out? That might help visualize things.

Monster Mike - does the Duff bar mount on the driver side?

 

[JWMcCrary]

When you say it flexes alot more, is it alot more than the travel you get out of long arms and a good set of leaf springs?

I've run the BC arms since they came out, I think I got one of the first sets. Installed in 2006 and the Torque Tamer in 2007.
In 2013 I added the WAH to the front axle, Duff coil cups, and replaced 3.5 springs with 4.5 springs (springs are Wildhorses rockcrawler). At the same time I installed a cold duck doubler which created the issue with having to modify the torque tamer. I changed from dual shocks on the rear (springs are WH 11 pack, 3.5)to a single long travel Bilstein in front of the axle which helped the rear considerably. I ran it on the street some and immediately decided I needed the torque bar back on there. I moved the crossmember back and bolted in place, then connected the tamer back to the rear axle, then checked to see where the tamer needed to be cutoff to have it sit about like it was originally. I modified it and that is how it is today.

That's the best I can do to describe how it flexes now compared to when the Tamer was first installed in 2007. It has more flex and lower gearing.

Here are pics I took this morning sitting in my garage. I don't think it's bent as bad as I first thought. But this is the 2nd time, the last time the heim wasn't bent. I will need a new heim because it's bent in the threads. The bolt holding the heim is against the carrier and the bottom tab is bent. The bottom bar of the tamer is bent towards the passenger side slightly. I'm going to replace the heim, straighten the mounting tab at the rear, and move the mounting location on the crossmember over a couple inches.

 

[Yeller]

The bracket on the axle needs to be double sheer as well, that will stop it from bending which in turn will help keep the hiem from bending. to keep from moving the bracket on the axle you can make a tab that picks up a 2-3 of the bolts on the carrier and 2-3 on the of the bolts on the pinion support, the force on that is pushing into the axle, that should eliminate that issue. from what I see in the pics that will probably fix the issue and not require moving the shackle end even though its very close,it shouldn't be an issue

 

[Monster Mike]

Yeller and Monster Mike - Thanks, that helps! Anyone have pics of the bar itself while flexing out? That might help visualize things.

Monster Mike - does the Duff bar mount on the driver side?

You're welcome!

If i can find some time today or tomorrow ill get the bronco flexed out and show you how it looks on a stock drivetrain application.

Yes it is on the driver side of the vehicle.

 

[Monster Mike]

I've run the BC arms since they came out, I think I got one of the first sets. Installed in 2006 and the Torque Tamer in 2007.
In 2013 I added the WAH to the front axle, Duff coil cups, and replaced 3.5 springs with 4.5 springs (springs are Wildhorses rockcrawler). At the same time I installed a cold duck doubler which created the issue with having to modify the torque tamer. I changed from dual shocks on the rear (springs are WH 11 pack, 3.5)to a single long travel Bilstein in front of the axle which helped the rear considerably. I ran it on the street some and immediately decided I needed the torque bar back on there. I moved the crossmember back and bolted in place, then connected the tamer back to the rear axle, then checked to see where the tamer needed to be cutoff to have it sit about like it was originally. I modified it and that is how it is today.

That's the best I can do to describe how it flexes now compared to when the Tamer was first installed in 2007. It has more flex and lower gearing.

Here are pics I took this morning sitting in my garage. I don't think it's bent as bad as I first thought. But this is the 2nd time, the last time the heim wasn't bent. I will need a new heim because it's bent in the threads. The bolt holding the heim is against the carrier and the bottom tab is bent. The bottom bar of the tamer is bent towards the passenger side slightly. I'm going to replace the heim, straighten the mounting tab at the rear, and move the mounting location on the crossmember over a couple inches.

Let me send you a new bracket, our brackets are 3/8" thick now. The top of the bar at the axle is double shear but the bottom isnt to allow access to the fill plug on the 9" Our new thicker bracket will be a great upgrade for guys like you who have deeper gearing and lots of articulation.

looking at your pics, I noticed your bar appears to sit farther forward in the shackle then ours does. which in turn allows it to be closer to the double cardon joint during maximum articulation. Because of that you have less room for movement. Id take baby steps and first replace the heim and install the thicker axle bracket. I think your axle bracket and heim are fatigued and allowing that bar to move.

 

[JWMcCrary]

Let me send you a new bracket, our brackets are 3/8" thick now. The top of the bar at the axle is double shear but the bottom isnt to allow access to the fill plug on the 9" Our new thicker bracket will be a great upgrade for guys like you who have deeper gearing and lots of articulation.

looking at your pics, I noticed your bar appears to sit farther forward in the shackle then ours does. which in turn allows it to be closer to the double cardon joint during maximum articulation. Because of that you have less room for movement. Id take baby steps and first replace the heim and install the thicker axle bracket. I think your axle bracket and heim are fatigued and allowing that bar to move.

Thanks Mike. I will call this afternoon. The crossmember is as far forward as I can mount it and didn't want to cut the bar any shorter. I still think moving the mounting on the crossmember a couple inches will help too. It does its job, I'm just using it a little different than the way it was originally built.

 

[Yeller]

If you decide to do the double sheer bracket a hole can/needs to be added to access the fill plug. I've made a lot of brackets for items on a 9" and its common to have to do that.

 

[DEEPWOODS]

Mine is like this also only about a 1/4 " from the drive shaft.I called and asked if it could have been welded in the wrong place and asked for a measurement from the frame rail. Duffs never would give me a measurement only saying that it is made in a jig and could not be welded on in the wrong place . I am still building my bronco and have not fixed it yet .