Need some help picking paint products

[NJBronco]

So I'm aquiring some products to get started in my 74 bronco. I need to clean up a lot of surface rust and replace some floor boards and sand surface rust everywhere. I think I understand what I'm doing with the metal as far as replacing and patching. My end goal is to spray the whole tub with a good primer and paint with a spray gun but the short term is where I'm lost. When I replace a section of the floor I would like to seal it up as I'm in a portable garage so I have humidity in there. I know to seal all tge joints with seam sealer but what primer should I use? Im trying to not have to use tge spray gun and clean it ever time. But I don't want to use a grab primer that I have to sand blast off to spray again. Is there no way around it or am I stuck having to clean out the spray gun a million times. Also is epoxy primer a sealer? As in if I blast an area of rust and find the panel is useable can I hit it with epoxy and consider it encapsulated?

I plan on patching everything and going Nutz with bondo and sanding. So I'm trying to make sure I use compatible products and keep everything sealed as I go. Getting the back side of the rear fenders is my biggest concern. Cost is also my main concern. That's why I'm patching. I can get loads of fee sheet metal. Just going to take forever over buying production panels but that's part of the fun for me.

Only other concer I have is once I have tge floor structure fixed where to I mount supports so I can lift the body off. I need the body off so I can restore or replace the frame. So body will also need to rest on a 5x8 utility trailer for while. Can I just rest tge body on 2x8. With blocks under the body mounts?

 

[hankjr]

Can't help with the paint aspects but watching and learning. Regarding body removal and storage, I used ratchet straps from overhead truss to eye bolts in floor pan and rear body mount holes. Worked slick. I also built a cart that mimics frame support locations. Cheap and easy.
Will post photos later

 

[NJBronco]

Cool deal. I'm looking for dirt cheap with the body stand since I'm not transporting it. Just need it off to work on frame.

Forgot that I will use weld though primer on all seems too

 

[allenfahey]

For primer you need either an epoxy primer or an etch primer followed by a 2K primer. Don't use epoxy overtop of etching. Some epoxy primers can be mixed as a sealer as well as regular 2K primers. I like using etching and a 2K primer. They tend to sand better. Whatever product you choose you need to check the TDS (technical data sheet). The TDS will tell you all you need to know about the product including mix ratios, dry times, recoat window, spray gun tip size, ect. Do a search for example " Spies 5400 TDS" and it will list a PDF for it.
I like Glasurit and Spies products because the primers, sealers, and clears all use the same hardeners and reducers. Some products like PPG requires you to use a bunch of different hardeners and reducers depending on the product. Too much to buy and have left over IMHO.

Spray gun cleanup is easy, don't worry about it too much. A very good product to use in the aid of cleanup is 3M's PPS Sysytem. It is the same principle as a baby bottle. It uses a bag inside a hard cup. You can literally spray upside down with it as well. DeVilbis has one called Dekup and SATA has their own version as well. 3M is the cheapest. You will need an adapter for your gun as well as the PPS cup and liners. I use lacquer thinner to clean all 2K urethane products with a ZEP spray bottle you can get at Home Depot. The ZEP spray nozzle seals don't react to the lacquer thinner like other sprayers. By using the spray bottle you kind of blast the primer, paint, or clear out of the gun instead of just rinsing it out.

When you apply the seam sealer (best is the 2 part seam sealers) you have to prime the seam first for optimum corrosion protection.

Going by your screen name, are you in New Jersey? If so you might want to buy your paint soon as they might have had to start using waterbourne. Depending on the brand of waterbourne it can be trickier to spray than solvent. I know there are a few states here in the NE that will be switching to water very soon.
I need to do a write up on paint for the tech section!

 

[hankjr]

Photos of my lift setup and cart. Cart was cheap enough and went together wiki wiki.

Hank

 

[hankjr]

Cart photo. Pics are small. Pm me if you want the full size photos.

 

[NJBronco]

So I'm still confused on how I want to go with my rust protection. I have all my metal work under control and my plan in place. I will use a weldthru primer on all seams. But I'm thinking maybe I will use the por15 products. Seems like if I do the marine wash and then the metal prep tgat I'm covered. That will let por15 stick to new and old metal. And it will serve as a good base then use their primer product. Can I do the whole body like this? I'm mean all of it. Inside and out. I'm really concerned with the rust coming back in a short time. I can't afford all new panels And I know I can't get everything rust free so I'm looking for the best combination of price and protection. A Lao want to keep it a simple process of just doing all steps in one process. As in not having to treat new metal differently then old. Just not sure if por15 is the best way and does bondo stick to it when I'm on tge finish work

 

[jmeyer1971]

Epoxy primer is expensive but yields very good results. If you use it buy the cheapest gun you can and throw it away after. The solvent needed to clean the gun is more than a cheap gun. Get as much of the rust as you can and use a good rust converter and POR15 is brushable

 

[allenfahey]

So I'm still confused on how I want to go with my rust protection. I have all my metal work under control and my plan in place. I will use a weldthru primer on all seams. But I'm thinking maybe I will use the por15 products. Seems like if I do the marine wash and then the metal prep tgat I'm covered. That will let por15 stick to new and old metal. And it will serve as a good base then use their primer product. Can I do the whole body like this? I'm mean all of it. Inside and out. I'm really concerned with the rust coming back in a short time. I can't afford all new panels And I know I can't get everything rust free so I'm looking for the best combination of price and protection. A Lao want to keep it a simple process of just doing all steps in one process. As in not having to treat new metal differently then old. Just not sure if por15 is the best way and does bondo stick to it when I'm on tge finish work[/QUOTE

I wouldn't use the POR-15 on the outside panels. POR-15 would be great to use on underside though. POR-15 doesn't sand well at all and defiantly doesn't feather. When you are ready to do bodywork it is best to apply body filler on bare metal. Simple way is to do your panel replacements using the weld thru primer on both mating surfaces or use panel adhesive if you can clamp the panels together. Then apply etching followed by a 2K primer, or sealer, or epoxy. Doesn't matter which you use but the epoxy is going to be better if you also plan on using it on the outside panels. Less products to buy! Whichever you choose only apply it on the bare metal where the seams are. Scuff the primer once it's dry with a red scuff pad. Then apply the seam sealer on the seams. Apply the POR-15 on the underside and you can follow that with one of their top coats but being in won't be exposed to UV you really don't need it. For the outside you can use the epoxy as you go.

For a spraygun I would buy the best you can afford. Cheap guns will not atomize the paint as well as a good gun. You will either get orange peel because it doesn't atomize or you will overcompensate and apply too much material. As a result you can get runs or solvent pop trying to get it to lay out smooth. Let the gun do the work for you. Devilbis has a few decent guns for the money and some have options of giving you several different tips. Good tip sizes are 1.2-1.4 for base, sealer, and clear and 1.5-2.2 for primer. When you get your gun make sure to get HVLP fittings for the gun, hose, and wall where the hose is hooked up. By using HVLP fittings you will ensure enough pressure and volume is it at the gun.

 

[badmuttstang]

If your looking to prime it without a spray gun you still need to use a primer that seal the metal and won't let moisture in. So regular spray paint won't do the job you could use this
http://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-s-2k-aero-spray-epoxy-primer-gray.html

 

[NJBronco]

Cool deal on that 2part spray can. My problem is I still feel like I'm not finding the right products. I keep researching and finding different answers. I think por15 on the body maybe overkill. So I am going to blast it. Replace what needs to be. Then I will need a rust convertor for old rusted sheet metal. From there. I hit it with a self etching primer. Then I do all the seam sealing and bondo work. Then hit with 2k primer Then paint and then clear

That sound about right? I was over thinking the make it rust proof. I will use a spray gun for both primers. So then I just need to make sure all layers work with each other.

 

[Naughty Bronc]

Repair your panels and remove the rusted areas. Then get yourself a good cheap primer gun check out Warwick 904 (onlinesprayguns.com )get a 2.5 tip. Then buy 2gal of http://www.smartshoppersinc.com/AutomotiveFinishes/Clausen_Primer.html
That stuff is the bomb! It is a self etching primer/sealer/bondo with a built in guide coat. I use it on all my restorations and it is tough as nails. you can pour this on so thick with ZERO shrinkage. You literally can do all your body work with this stuff without bondo if your panels are not all beat to hell. Lay it on heavy and block sand it flat. Lay on more until its perfect. Make sure you wash vehicle with dawn soap and water,rinse and towel dry asap before you apply this product. You should end up with a final wet sand of 600 grit before you apply a epoxy sealer then base as needed. Hope this helps you.

 

[NJBronco]

Perfect. Exactly what I was looking for. So using tgat I don't need a rust converter product? Only other question is seam sealer do I put it on prior to tgat product or after. I think after. That all in one looks like my first coat. Then seam sealer and any bondo work if needed. I will probably get a sealer from them as well. Then I can stick to por15 on just the frame and suspension components.

 

[Naughty Bronc]

If you have good metal then no. But if you have rust you either need to remove it and replace panels or use a neutralizer. Take note that sometimes neutralizers do not work. I like to sand/grind/cut out my rust. Now as for dents hammer them out and if you take your time you can get them close enough to where you do not need bondo. The product i mentioned is a bondo/primer/etc. Most hail repair shops love this because an unrepairable dent they grind down with 36 grit and literally pour this into the damaged area. It self levels and with zero shrinkage they block sand it and then one wet coat after then sand then paint. So if you get your panels close then this is ALL YOU NEED ...lol!

 

[allenfahey]

According to the 'All-You-Need" Application Guide it states the maximum thickness is only 12 mils which is only 0.012" thick. All spray polyesters have a maximum mil thickness of about 12 mils. One of the most popular ones sold in body shops is Evercoat Feather Fill G2 says the same thing 2-3 coats each coat is 2.0-4.0 thick.

The proper way is to do your bodywork with body filler which depending on the product used can go 1/4-3/8" thick which is alot more than the spray polyester. Then if you choose to, use the spray polyester which will be better than 4-5 coats of 2K or epoxy primer. 2K or epoxy primer is max 3 coats.

Seam sealer goes on after you have applied primer or spray a coat of sealer on for corrosion protection. Do not apply it on etching or body filler. The best seam sealers are the 2 part type that uses a double barrel caulking gun. If you want to use a regular caulking gun found at the hardware store then Lord Fusor 800EZ is a quality seam sealer.

 

[Naughty Bronc]

Try putting All-u-need in a clear cup about 1/2" thick and then Evercoat. Let them cure and see the results. If some of the biggest names use it on award winning sema cars and its heavily used on muscle car/Trucks on spike tv then its worth checking into. I did and i will tell you that this stuff is tough as nails and with the added zink and self etching its a win win. If ya need 3/8 body filler then the sheet metal needs re worked. Or your just asking for trouble. Besides this stuff will out last any bondo out there.