New Bronco Based on Subcompact?!?!?

[97XEB]

Thanks for the all the info sstlaure. I'm a business man myself, and believe me, I hear what you'er saying... However, my contention is still as follows:

I have absolutely NO problem with Ford buidling a new, economic, small-mid sized SUV aimed at the budget conscious younger buyer (as if that isn't an oximoron itself). Fine - impovise, adapt, overcome... Just DON'T call it a Bronco!

Isn't it also extremely interesting that the very article you reference and quoted mentions absolutely NOTHING about slumping sales of Jeep Wranglers or Chevy Hummers? Not to mention that Dodge just very recently came out with their PowerWagon model.

My point is that out of respect for the lineage, heritage, aftermarket support and never ending popularity of the Early Bronco, the Bronco name shouldn't just be thrown around lightly, or just for sales as a marketing gimic. We're talking about a vehicle that was named the greatest 4x4 of all time a few years back by at least one of the off road rags, and that to this day has a following similar to that of the Corvette, Mustang and Jeep. If Ford's going to build a new version, it should remain true to its heritage in the same way that Corvetter, maybe the Mustang and Jeeps have remained true to their lineage.

While maybe a little outside the box, any new "Bronco" model should really be a niche vehicle, aimed squarely at the real off-road market and made to compete head-on with the Wranglers (guess they've never really been all that successful...), the Hummers, the PowerWagons, etc. Take advantage of this niche sport / market that is getting more and more mainstream, and that is usually supported by folks less cost conscious than your average bear. Our sport and our toys are expensive, but we do spend that money b/c we're so passionate about what we do!

Ford really needs a little (or a lot) of the outside the box, risk taking mentality. But what do I know, I don't work in the industry and besides, I guess the "outside the box" mentality hasn't really worked all that well for Chrysler...

If you build it, they will come...

PS: Nothing personal...just a healthy debate.

 

[sstlaure]

Nothing personal taken Just wanted you to know there are those of us in Ford that agree with you. I'm just not in any kind of a position that can make a difference. I really don't think bringing a True Bronco to the market would be a financially smart move at this time. (as much as I'd like to see it.)

The H3 hasn't been out long enough to have sales trends yet....Here's one on the H2. I'll post some actual manufacturing numbers later once I find them. It's very interesting stuff.

http://www.theoaklandpress.com/stories/030504/bus_20040305018.shtml

Hummer sales sag no bummer to giant GM

Web-posted Mar 5, 2004

By JOSEPH SZCZESNY
Press Automotive Editor


After a fast start two years ago, sales of General Motors Corp.'s Hummer H2 have begun to fade, dropping for six consecutive months, on a year-to-year basis.
Paul Ballew, GM's general director of market analysis, insisted this week the company isn't concerned about the drift in sales of the Hummer after they dropped 21 percent in February. Sales of the Hummer, which has been widely criticized by environmentalists as a gas guzzler, dropped 35 percent in January.

"We're not concerned about the Hummer brand. We're extremely pleased with Hummer," Ballew said during GM's monthly sales conference call with analysts and journalists. "It's a very, very viable brand."

Ballew added the current stocks are well-balanced and many dealerships are still rebuilding their inventories after strong sales in December. However, even sales during December lagged behind sales in December 2002, according to GM's own sales figures.

Pete Ternes, spokesman for Hummer, also dismissed suggestions raised by some analysts that the Hummer - with its bold, boxy shape - is a fad that's losing steam. "The more exotic the vehicle, the faster the start and then the market gets saturated quickly."

One analyst, who asked not to be identified noted, "The people who want one already have one."

Jeff Brodski, an analyst for J.D. Power & Associates, said the sales of the H2 appear to have settled into a groove of about 2,500 units per month but consumer demand has faded since the vehicle's introduction. "It came out strong at the start, but it has settled back," added Brodski.

New data from Edmunds.com, which tracks sales information from across the automobile industry, indicate new Hummers are sitting on dealers lots longer, as the length of time it takes to turn over inventory has increased.

Ternes, however, said sales of the H2 are consistent with GM's original forecasts. Initially, GM executives had predicted sales of around 40,000 units. Hummer sales, including sales of the H1, a civilian version of the vehicle used by the U.S. Department of Defense, and the H2, totaled 35,529. Sales of the H2 totaled 34,529.

GM now expects to reach the 40,000 target by selling more Hummers abroad, added Ternes. It sold a total of 1,500 Hummers in Europe, Russia and the Middle East during 2003. Foreign sales will grow as it enters more markets, Ternes added.

Hummer will get another lift in the spring with the introduction of the H2 SUT, or sport utility truck, which is basically a Hummer with a cargo box.

"We think the SUT will give us a boost," Ternes said.

Hummer sales remain strong in California and many dealers are reporting shortages of some vehicles.

"We could have put more money on the hood and sold another 500 vehicles last month," Ternes said, referring to larger rebates. "But that's not our business model."

In addition, GM also is looking at adding another smaller, more fuel efficient vehicle, the H3, to the Hummer line. The prototype of the H3, which is built off the architecture for a compact pickup truck, was displayed at major auto shows this winter, but GM hasn't said officially whether it will go into production. Unofficially, it is considered a go-product for next year.

Environmentalists have been enormously critical of the Hummer, both for lack of fuel economy and its aggressive in-your-face styling.

Dan Becker, a spokesman for the Sierra Club, noted Hummer sales have stalled despite new tax breaks that allow professionals, such as doctors and lawyers, and small business owners to write off vehicles costing up to $100,000.

"Hummer sales are dropping like a stone. It says a lot about the American people that they rejected the H2. The American people are too sensible to buy a Hummer even when President Bush is offering to subsidize the purchase," Becker said.

"GM went whole hog on a sow of a vehicle and they couldn't sell it. That's good news."


And here is a typical write-up on a Jeep Wrangler (even the Unlimited.)...When people in the industry read these things, they take note.

http://www.forbes.com/vehicles/2004/07/19/cx_mf_0719test_2.html

If you are going to be doing serious off-roading, the carpeting and rear bench seating are removable--as are the sides and the rest of the roof, but to do that you have to undo myriad Velcro straps and unzipper several panels.

This, in fact, proves quite a chore and creates other problems: Not only is a Wrangler Unlimited deafening after a few hours of highway driving (despite more sound-deadening material added beneath the hood, behind the dash and under the cargo area), but loading your rucksack into the rear cargo area if you don't start unzippering and un-Velcroing is a hassle. A rear metal door swings wide, but the opening itself is too narrow, so a fat suitcase, a big toolbox or even that cooler filled with Pabst Blue Ribbon isn't going to fit through this tight-lipped mouth. Perhaps that's why a hardtop is offered for a reasonably priced $795.

A pop-up function works like a sunroof.

And no matter what, the cargo volume of the Unlimited is quite limited. Behind the rear seats you get 29 cubic feet of space, smaller than the 33 cubic feet in the back of a $19,400 Honda (nyse: HMC - news - people ) CR-V. Fold those backseats forward and you get 63 cubic feet of cargo room, ten cubic feet less than that offered in the CR-V.

Oh, sure, the CR-V isn't meant to do the off-road gymnastics of the Unlimited, but are you really going off-roading, or just heading up a fire road to a hiking trailhead? That's the kind of road that any vehicle with all-wheel drive and car-like ground clearance could handle.


More cargo room, but is that enough to sell the Unlimited?

And if you're not intending to do earnest four-wheeling, the downsides to owning this vehicle are just too prominent to overlook. For instance, handling, though better than that of a stock Wrangler, thanks to a longer wheelbase, is still jarring and bouncy. Cornering is disconcerting at best, and downright scary in any emergency maneuvers. And there's no antilock braking system, let alone stability controls, items that would greatly improve one's peace of mind while navigating the Wrangler Unlimited on wet roads.

Further, the 190-hp, 4.0-liter inline six-cylinder engine is fairly anemic, and it doesn't help that it's mated to a slow-shifting automatic three-speed with automatic overdrive. Adding insult to injury, it gets 14 mpg in the city, about equal to some very powerful, very modern V-8s in many larger SUVs.

 

[feitctaj]

SST , I need to state my opinion here, But please understand my bitch is with the outside , or body designers.
someone started to go down the path of the designs, The inside of the MUSTANG is functional and cool. But the outside of the mustang is a hospital bed. steril, no Pizzaz. The Mustang lines are great, some retro, BUT THEY NO FINISH THE CAR! The Mustang was known for the outside details and styling.
Ford Should recall all the Mustangs from last year and Finish them.
That is why they will go away like the 85 Mustangs(Yawn)
The New/ old now Tbird died because of this exact reason, bring it home from the dealer and tuck it away and you have already forgotten it.

 

[sstlaure]

SST , I need to state my opinion here, But please understand my bitch is with the outside , or body designers.
someone started to go down the path of the designs, The inside of the MUSTANG is functional and cool. But the outside of the mustang is a hospital bed. steril, no Pizzaz. The Mustang lines are great, some retro, BUT THEY NO FINISH THE CAR! The Mustang was known for the outside details and styling.
Ford Should recall all the Mustangs from last year and Finish them.
That is why they will go away like the 85 Mustangs(Yawn)
The New/ old now Tbird died because of this exact reason, bring it home from the dealer and tuck it away and you have already forgotten it.

I understand your opinion, but most people would disagree with you. My personal favorite right now is the Shelby GT500 & the Cammer race cars, coming soon to a theater near you.

T-bird died because there aren't that many people willing to shell out $40K for a second vehicle (convertibles are rarely a primary vehicle in a household.) I thought the execution on it was quite good, and the LS platform is excellent. Unfortunately, I think you'd see the exact same thing happen with the Bronco if we brought to market what everyone would hope the Bronco could be.

We've been selling the 05/06 Mustang at ~140% of the outgoing model. A resounding success in the marketplace (This calendar year alone we have made over 140,000, with a full 3 months left in the year. compare that with the ~69,000 units sold in the same time period last year of the old model)

Production figures are 1/1-9/1 for both 04 & 05

Jeep Wrangler 05-52,950 units 04-53,107
Wrangler Unlim. 05-15,481 units 04-14,307

There's no breakdown for Rubicon specific, but I'd estimate 20% of that volume to be Rubicon - so ~12,000 units or so of a vehicle that has the capabilities that we would want. I know that no one on this site would be happy with a Bronco that sports the standard options of the standard Wrangler (4 cyl, etc.). Note that the Big 3 don't even offer any full-size 2-door SUV's anymore, mainly due to sagging sales. They all went 4-door due to consumer demand for that product.

Tahoe 05-107,449 04-135,922
Expedition 05-81,358 04-141,337
Hummer H3 05-31,097 04-N/A
Hummer H2 05-18,068 04-21,980
Hummer H1 05-381 04-173
Explorer 05-154,607 04-299,140

Now look at the small SUV's

Liberty 05-159,484 04-159,082
Escape/Tribute 05-192,887 04-214,082

SUV's and trucks have taken a big hit in the marketplace. I (and industry experts) expect this to continue. Most of the SUV's offered by Japan are made in Japan and I only have North American production numbers. You can see the volumes are MUCH higher on the smaller vehicles (larger quantity of people able to afford both the purchase price and the maintenance/gas costs.)

 

[Hogback]

sstlaure, i've just gotta give you guys at ford a big thumbs up for the new mustang, that thing just looks awsome. I dont care what anyone says that was a perfect design that incorporated old style with some new flow. An absolute job well done! I'd buy one if it fit my lifestyle, i don't think reaching in the back to get the baby girl out would be very fun after a few hundred times. my $.02
oh, we're supposed to be discussing the Bronco

 

[sstlaure]

sstlaure, i've just gotta give you guys at ford a big thumbs up for the new mustang, that thing just looks awsome. I dont care what anyone says that was a perfect design that incorporated old style with some new flow. An absolute job well done! I'd buy one if it fit my lifestyle, i don't think reaching in the back to get the baby girl out would be very fun after a few hundred times. my $.02
oh, we're supposed to be discussing the Bronco

Thanks for the compliment on the Mustang. We all worked incredibly hard to deliver a winner.

You'd be surprised. I've put my rear-facing childseat in the back with no problem (uses the new "Latch" system to connect the childseat into the vehicle...it no longer uses the actual seatbelts anymore.) It's not roomy by any means, but adequate for the occasional backseat passenger. (kicks the crap out of the back seat of competitive vehicles.)

 

[Moaiz]

Maybe we can petition to have it named the Bronco III since it seems to be geared toward the same market the Bronco II was. The same thinking deposited the BII on the market seems to be driving the production of this vehicle. I think we just have to accept that the same passion that exists within Ford for the mustang/SVT performance line will never exist for our vehicle of choice or the building and production of anything remotely resembling it. Sadly that niche of passion and support seems to be much stronger with Heep.

 

[JFX]

I'd like to see the new Bronco made on the Ranger platform with the V-8, get it in the show rooms and refine from there.Add the diesel in a couple of years. Take what is needed from Mazda or Land Rover and call it a day.

It should not be based on anything remotely resembling the Escape platform...IMHO.


JFX


*EDIT

Even thought I made it sound much like the Explorer "Sport" above, I meant to expand on that chassis and make the Bronco more of a 4X4.