New Location for Hydroboost

[Hal9000]

I'm no engineer, but honestly, I can't see how the shaft/heims will be seeing any substantial force other than the rotational force imparted by the pedal. The rod will have some torque applied to it, but that's all.

Also, If you look carefully you can see the whole thing is mounted to a plate (looks like about 1/8"), not directly to the firewall.

 

[sandbuggy]

if hydro goes out you have manual brakes
if you loose mc you have parking brake
if no parking brake you have......... Fred Flitstone brakes if you can get get feet thru the sheet metal....... not ...kiss your b.tt goodbye ;D
i think the idea is for space and better brakes
I may be wrong but most manual mc are bolted to the firewall with two bolt right, i dont see the firewalls all bent out shape (same goes for this setup)
this is a good idea for moving the brake system over to make room ,is it perfect maybe not ,but there is always room improvement in all first ideas
i'll bet in a year or less someone is producing something close to this idea
that why we have this forum to flame people on a good start to an idea
by the way my hydro boost mounted to the firewall with braket and four bolt
%) ;D

 

[SSDDBRONCO]

i dont get what's the difference between the hydroboost and the regular power brakes for disk brakes in the front???

 

[broncnaz]

A lot of people cover up poor braking performance with H boost. because they usually have the wrong MC for there setup and the pedal is to hard to push. But on the same note H boost does work a little better than a vacuum booster for systems that are just not quite there.
I would always caution against using any booster when your system cant be stopped good with manual foot pressure. Because if the booster does fail for some reason then you'll have real problems.

 

[sandbuggy]

hydro boost 2500 - 3000 psi
regular power brakes 900 -1150 psi
for manual the right size of mc for a disk+disk or a disk+drum and the right
pedal ratio for all of the this setups
my setup is hydro boost, 3/4 ton disk front and rear and 1.25 mc and pedal ratio is 7 to 1
I use my toes for brakes not two feet ;D

 

[sandbuggy]

OH and 37" tires

 

[Buddy's 70]

Hey buddy, you asked, so I told you what I think. I think you design leaves some room for improvement. That's my opinion. I didn't say it was a bad idea, nor did I take a shot at the fabrication. My gauge on things like this is "Would I pay/purchase it" from a vendor. I would answer no. I think you are still in the alpha stage of this design.

I still have not heard you explain why your grade 8 washer-mounted heim joints were bolted to the firewall, and not bolted to the bracket?

OX1 and Buddy, when you are talking about how hard you are pressing the pedals, and kissing windows, etc. I guess you are talking about when the unit is working, i.e. functioning properly. What about when it is not functioning, or god forbid, you engine dies, and you can't hold back your 37 inch tires, as you head down, down, down, relying only on the residual pressure charge in that resevoir to slow your truck, before you have only manual brakes left.

You will be standing on that pedal with all of your might, and you still don't think it would be better to mount your heims on the same bracket as the shaft? Gime me a break.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpbkTncjEOs

Hey Bosshoff, the reason that I mounted the heim joints thru the firewall is because if I added a plate to the upper and lower bracket and then bolted the heims to the plate, it would move the HB 1 1/4" farther forward(towards to the grill) and then the brake reservoir would hit the hood, it's really close now.
Also, I can't even shorten the pin(going into the HB) anymore than I already have to try and make up the difference of the nuts and washers that would go on the backside of the plate. I did add 3/16" material on the inside of the firewall that the heim joints are bolted to,but you've got me thinking that I should maybe weld those 3/16" pcs. to the pedal bracket,just to give added insurance against anything pulling thru the firewall. Now if I were to build another one of these set ups, the angle that the HB bolts to would be longer thus lowering the HB and then I could probably add the plate between the upper and lower and bolt to it(the HB is about an 1" or so off the fender now). Before I installed the HB, I just had manual brakes with 33" tires and while it definitely required more pressure to slow down and stop, it still wasn't a problem. Also the manual mc was bolted thru the firewall into the pedal bracket(which only seems to be about 1/16" or so thick)with only 2 bolts. I know a couple of guys who run 33" and 35" tires with manual brakes(they have plans to go with power or HB at some point)and haven't had any problems(other than tired legs) stopping or any firewall failure.If my engine dies, I still have 2 pressured pumps before it feels like manual brakes, so I'm back to square one if the engine dies. On the first design of my brake rod, it had about 1 3/4" of exposed 7/16" bolt that I did manage to bend in the exposed thread area during testing. Since then i've redesigned the brake rod and there isn't any exposed threads anywhere and it's also beefier. I've tried a number of different scenarios to test this set up and with the exception of bending the brake rod(I'm 6'3" and 230 and I have purposely put quite a bit of pressure on the whole linkage system trying to get a failure somewhere) there hasn't been any other problems. If you or anyone else has an idea for testing this system that I haven't mentioned, let me know and I can try it out. Bottom line is, I have tried to make this set up as safe as I know how, test it to the best of my ability, and make it stronger than the factory system. Also Bosshoff, in reference to your last statement, I have stood on the brakes with both feet and all my might(with out any problems other than the brake rod) and I never said that it's better to mount the heims thru the firewall instead of to the bracket system, that's just how I designed it because of the room issue. Next time(if there is one) I think I could make it work like I described above. Also you spelled gimme wrong.

 

[Buddy's 70]

A lot of people cover up poor braking performance with H boost. because they usually have the wrong MC for there setup and the pedal is to hard to push. But on the same note H boost does work a little better than a vacuum booster for systems that are just not quite there.
I would always caution against using any booster when your system cant be stopped good with manual foot pressure. Because if the booster does fail for some reason then you'll have real problems.

You're absolutely right! My brake system before the HB was in great shape with no pulls to either side, newer rotors, pads, and upgraded calipers, so the HB in my case just made it easier to press the pedal. If anyone is thinking about HB, they should have any problems with their brakes fixed before doing it.

 

[broncnaz]

hydro boost 2500 - 3000 psi
regular power brakes 900 -1150 psi
for manual the right size of mc for a disk+disk or a disk+drum and the right
pedal ratio for all of the this setups
my setup is hydro boost, 3/4 ton disk front and rear and 1.25 mc and pedal ratio is 7 to 1
I use my toes for brakes not two feet ;D

Your numbers are not quite true.
They H boost may be able to exert up to 3000 psi on the MC although I highly doubt that as thats way too much for the system to handle they are usually regulated so they dont blow anything out. Usually they are regulated down to the 1200-2000 psi range any more than that and most brake hoses will blow out.
Boosters are mainly used to reduce pedal pressure and while H boost does/can exert more force they are not intended to cover up bad systems. The main question is howwell does you vehicle stop without H boost I bet your not using your toes to stop then. With only about 400 psi generated by your MC and pedal ratio per 100 lbs of force applied to the pedal.
I'll say it again If your vehicle doesnt stop good without the booster then your system is ill designed.

 

[DanWheeler]

Call me paranoid but IMO the arrows below point out the scariest part of this design

If one of those welds crack and allows the shaft to spin, you've got nothing to stop you. Maybe its not likely but is it worth the risk?

 

[bosshoff]

Buddy, to be fair, I did not really see the "plate" which is shown really well in post #50. (It kind of blends in in the first eight pictures on page #1.) I also fixed my spelling error. If you were to build another one of these, I think you are right that if you extended the angle iron, you could mount the heims directly to the bracket. You could also increase the distance between the bracket and the hydrobooster a little bit to compensate for this.
To satisfy Danwheeler, in future units you build you should have the arms Tig welded professionally on both sides, to the shaft(if it is not already the case. You may BE a professional Tig welder, I have no idea.)

 

[KyleQ]

You guys are freekin weenies - the required pressure to break welds would be astronomical if welded properly. The forces needed to stop the truck with hydroboost are much less then the factory manual brakes - I'd rock that setup in a heartbeat, but my rig never sees the road, so that may sway my opinion.

 

[Buddy's 70]

Buddy, to be fair, I did not really see the "plate" which is shown really well in post #50. (It kind of blends in in the first eight pictures on page #1.) I also fixed my spelling error. If you were to build another one of these, I think you are right that if you extended the angle iron, you could mount the heims directly to the bracket. You could also increase the distance between the bracket and the hydrobooster a little bit to compensate for this.
To satisfy Danwheeler, in future units you build you should have the arms Tig welded professionally on both sides, to the shaft(if it is not already the case. You may BE a professional Tig welder, I have no idea.)

Yes,the yellow bracket does blend into the yellow firewall and makes it hard to see(PO painted it)and no I am not a professional welder by any means and the shaft does go thru the bracket and is welded to both sides(again it's hard to tell by the pics).

 

[broncnaz]

Call me paranoid but IMO the arrows below point out the scariest part of this design

If one of those welds crack and allows the shaft to spin, you've got nothing to stop you. Maybe its not likely but is it worth the risk?

I'll call you paranoid.
I dont know maybe you should look at a stock brake pedal the main force is basically going through a pressed in pin. its no different than a weld on a vacuum booster linkage.
If that really scares you how about the ubolts that hold your drive shaft to the yoke they are pretty small bust seem to hold up very well.

I could see if the welds were only tack welds but a full weld? come on.

 

[sandbuggy]

Just for the record the numbers are from van from vanco brakes also on the web.
I was quoting from memory on the psi that hydro can produce.
Your right(Danwheeler) i dont use my toes to stop without hydro boost
i do have to use my foot;D
AS for the welding i am no longer cert welder, without xraying the welds they look fine I still do alot of welding
I have a uncle thats a cert welder for 38years he says that tig is a cleaner
weld not stronger, its mostly used for stainless and aluminium
6010 welding rod has 60000 psi and 7018 is 70000 psi
Most mig welding that used on steel usely is rated 70000 psi
i would be more worried about a cold weld failing
But we are talking about mc, hydro boost still being mounted to 1/16 steel firewall .
Just my two cent.......funning that all I have

 

[Dave]

Just for the record the numbers are from van from vanco brakes also on the web.
I was quoting from memory on the psi that hydro can produce.
Your right(Danwheeler) AS for the welding i am no longer cert welder, without xraying the welds they look fine I still do alot of welding
I have a uncle thats a cert welder for 38years he says that tig is a cleaner
weld not stronger, its mostly used for stainless and aluminium
6010 welding rod has 60000 psi and 7018 is 70000 psi
Most mig welding that used on steel usely is rated 70000 psi
i would be more worried about a cold weld failing.

There is more to the strength of a weld than the tensile strength of the filler rod. TIG makes much stronger welds for several reasons. The article below explains better than I could. By the way, those welds look fine and I would trust them.


http://www.ridgenet.net/~biesiade/weld.htm

 

[Mark]

Call me paranoid but IMO the arrows below point out the scariest part of this design


If one of those welds crack and allows the shaft to spin, you've got nothing to stop you. Maybe its not likely but is it worth the risk?

LMAO!! are you joking???
I think the H-boost pushrod will fail before those welds!! Maybe it's not likely but is it worth the risk? heehee

 

[Oatmeal]

I really like the concept! I might have to build something similar but, I think I'll use pillow block bearings and a matching shaft (can probably get them from the hvac guys at work;D ) and assemble it into one bolt on unit. The only problem that I can see with your design is, that if you ever have to replace that inboard heim, you'll have to cut one of the arms off as you have it trapped between the two of them. Is that the Astro Van m/c that you're using? Disc/disc or disc/drum brakes? Would a Corvette or Camaro(?) m/c give more hood clearence. Anyway great out of the box thinking!-------Hans

 

[NJB71]

cmon buddy 70, $250.00 all in, I buy-when can u ship....want to do HB swap in spring, you'll have plenty time to fab....not kiddin, I love the look.

 

[sandbuggy]

I agree with the the fact that tig is cleaner an less chance of "Porosity"
and there is more to welds than tensile strength of filler rod.....been there done that,if tig was stronger every steel beams and posts in buildings and bridges, oil pipe lines, oil tanks, ships,truck frames and so on....
All I have left to say is that (We all think were pros at everything we do time to time ) thats what makes all this forums cool